Fender Tonemaster Princeton

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StrummersOfThunder
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

bender wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:09 am
StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:40 am
I'm not sure heat is going to be the culprit with issues in an amp like the tone master. Just inevitable badness of overly complex systems. Doing a bit of reading there is a lot of stuff going on in there.
Yeah, I just meant that it’s not going to be subjected to the kinds of stresses that valve amps are- there are loads of old SS and modelling amps still going strong that have never needed servicing.

100% agree about the pricing.
Old as amps were fairly simple transistor amps with not much else going on
Quick non evidence based and inheritantly biased Google search does question the life expectancy of digital amps and points out lots of ways they fail. Now, the same goes for tube Amps but again, these are far more self serviceable or amp techable.
I could be totally wrong but I doubt very much reverb will be populated with fender tone masters from 2022 in the year 2042 let alone 2082 !
Back to my initial point. I think these need to be priced for what they are, not what they are trying to be.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by bender »

StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:28 am
bender wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:09 am
StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 6:40 am
I'm not sure heat is going to be the culprit with issues in an amp like the tone master. Just inevitable badness of overly complex systems. Doing a bit of reading there is a lot of stuff going on in there.
Yeah, I just meant that it’s not going to be subjected to the kinds of stresses that valve amps are- there are loads of old SS and modelling amps still going strong that have never needed servicing.

100% agree about the pricing.
Old as amps were fairly simple transistor amps with not much else going on
Quick non evidence based and inheritantly biased Google search does question the life expectancy of digital amps and points out lots of ways they fail. Now, the same goes for tube Amps but again, these are far more self serviceable or amp techable.
I could be totally wrong but I doubt very much reverb will be populated with fender tone masters from 2022 in the year 2042 let alone 2082 !
Back to my initial point. I think these need to be priced for what they are, not what they are trying to be.
You’re not wrong. I can’t see these kinds of amps having a useable lifespan of more than 10 years. I’m just saying that they hopefully wouldn’t need much in the way of servicing in the medium term.

I’d much rather have something that is easier to service indefinitely though.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

bender wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:16 am
StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:28 am
bender wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:09 am

Yeah, I just meant that it’s not going to be subjected to the kinds of stresses that valve amps are- there are loads of old SS and modelling amps still going strong that have never needed servicing.

100% agree about the pricing.
Old as amps were fairly simple transistor amps with not much else going on
Quick non evidence based and inheritantly biased Google search does question the life expectancy of digital amps and points out lots of ways they fail. Now, the same goes for tube Amps but again, these are far more self serviceable or amp techable.
I could be totally wrong but I doubt very much reverb will be populated with fender tone masters from 2022 in the year 2042 let alone 2082 !
Back to my initial point. I think these need to be priced for what they are, not what they are trying to be.
You’re not wrong. I can’t see these kinds of amps having a useable lifespan of more than 10 years. I’m just saying that they hopefully wouldn’t need much in the way of servicing in the medium term.

I’d much rather have something that is easier to service indefinitely though.
I get at this stage it's too early to tell. But if my experience with techy shit like phones and laptops is anything to go by, they don't get any better with age !

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by bender »

StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:25 am
bender wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:16 am
StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:28 am

Old as amps were fairly simple transistor amps with not much else going on
Quick non evidence based and inheritantly biased Google search does question the life expectancy of digital amps and points out lots of ways they fail. Now, the same goes for tube Amps but again, these are far more self serviceable or amp techable.
I could be totally wrong but I doubt very much reverb will be populated with fender tone masters from 2022 in the year 2042 let alone 2082 !
Back to my initial point. I think these need to be priced for what they are, not what they are trying to be.
You’re not wrong. I can’t see these kinds of amps having a useable lifespan of more than 10 years. I’m just saying that they hopefully wouldn’t need much in the way of servicing in the medium term.

I’d much rather have something that is easier to service indefinitely though.
I get at this stage it's too early to tell. But if my experience with techy shit like phones and laptops is anything to go by, they don't get any better with age !
Amazingly, there are 11 line 6 modelling amps from the 90s on Reverb right now! They’ll be awful.

The only point I’m really making is that these will probably be more reliable than a tube amp in the 1-5 years zone, and then infinitely less after that.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

Yep I'd agree with that. They probably will.
Risk of ending up with worthless garbage is not insignificant with toastmaster but you'll always have a friend in tube.
Untill the Russians destroy all the tube factories.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by jeremyb »

GrantB wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:27 pm
StrummersOfThunder wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:58 pm I've spent days in deep thought about the tonemasters and I've decided they're a silly thing.
There , I'd say that pretty much closes that all down.
Do, do you think Fender are....dare I say it....capitalising on their previous good work to profit by shifting the equity value to reputation, rather than actual current quality? :shifty:
Its not been working well for Gibson :rofl:
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by Slowy »

StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:25 am
bender wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:16 am
StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:28 am

Old as amps were fairly simple transistor amps with not much else going on
Quick non evidence based and inheritantly biased Google search does question the life expectancy of digital amps and points out lots of ways they fail. Now, the same goes for tube Amps but again, these are far more self serviceable or amp techable.
I could be totally wrong but I doubt very much reverb will be populated with fender tone masters from 2022 in the year 2042 let alone 2082 !
Back to my initial point. I think these need to be priced for what they are, not what they are trying to be.
You’re not wrong. I can’t see these kinds of amps having a useable lifespan of more than 10 years. I’m just saying that they hopefully wouldn’t need much in the way of servicing in the medium term.

I’d much rather have something that is easier to service indefinitely though.
I get at this stage it's too early to tell. But if my experience with techy shit like phones and laptops is anything to go by, they don't get any better with age !
I've followed this with interest. A Bandmate has a DR Tonemaster bought on my recommendation. I stand by that even though I'm unlikely ever to buy one myself. He loves the light weight. Tonally, he gets a sound he's used to and never changes so it's set and forget for him. He's older, set in his ways and an amp is just something to make his guitar louder. He doesn't want to think about anything beyond brand confidence and he has the budget to support the attitude.
Fender Tonemaster is a no brainer choice.

But it's disposable tech rather than hand built circuits. Fender has no reason to fund a supply of circuit boards for the next 50 years and I'll put money on the fact that they won't. The most encouraging thing about this product line is that it will offer a steady supply of Fender combo cabs for folks like MikeC to house real amps in.

These things are cellphones; use it until the next shiny thing comes along then bin it.
The one exception I can think of is a long series of well paid gigs where light weight is valuable and the amp is funded as part of tour costs.

They work well, sound good and if you're happy to apply the same fiscal reasoning to your amp that you do to your phone, Fender thanks you for your massively profitable purchase and looks forward to your custom again in the near future.
"We were playing so loud that just one note on the guitar was sufficient".
Ritchie Blackmore.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by sizzlingbadger »

How many 50-60yr old guitar modellers are still around today ? none, see they just don't last.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

Absolutely
Like I said. These the phone/laptop of the amp world.
I don't have any objection to them in principle but i think it's good to hash out where they sit in our little world of gear malarkey.
I'm a total fender fan, and the stuff the do (or have done) well is epic.
Almost all of what they do en masse now is pretty average so my oretest probability test for the tonemasters is already coloured with this opinion.
Weight issue is easily solved with a neo loaded cab and a head but if combo is your thing then yes this works well for that.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by bender »

sizzlingbadger wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:20 am How many 50-60yr old guitar modellers are still around today ? none, see they just don't last.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by Slowy »

sizzlingbadger wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:20 am How many 50-60yr old guitar modellers are still around today ? none, see they just don't last.
With logic like that, Voices For Freedom would welcome you with open arms! :lol:
"We were playing so loud that just one note on the guitar was sufficient".
Ritchie Blackmore.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by Slowy »

StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:23 am Absolutely
Like I said. These the phone/laptop of the amp world.
I don't have any objection to them in principle but i think it's good to hash out where they sit in our little world of gear malarkey.
I'm a total fender fan, and the stuff the do (or have done) well is epic.
Almost all of what they do en masse now is pretty average so my oretest probability test for the tonemasters is already coloured with this opinion.
Weight issue is easily solved with a neo loaded cab and a head but if combo is your thing then yes this works well for that.
They're an excellent $500 amp. Highly recommended at that price.
"We were playing so loud that just one note on the guitar was sufficient".
Ritchie Blackmore.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by bender »

I think if they were $1500, they would make a lot more sense.

$500 would obviously be much better though.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

Slowy wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:26 am
StrummersOfThunder wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:23 am Absolutely
Like I said. These the phone/laptop of the amp world.
I don't have any objection to them in principle but i think it's good to hash out where they sit in our little world of gear malarkey.
I'm a total fender fan, and the stuff the do (or have done) well is epic.
Almost all of what they do en masse now is pretty average so my oretest probability test for the tonemasters is already coloured with this opinion.
Weight issue is easily solved with a neo loaded cab and a head but if combo is your thing then yes this works well for that.
They're an excellent $500 amp. Highly recommended at that price.
I thought they were over $2k?

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Princeton

Post by StrummersOfThunder »

Oh the Princeton yes

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