Speaker options?

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by olegmcnoleg »

Slowy wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:42 am 3 members of dCompress work in the professional audio/PA industry. Any gear we need for any situation can be pulled straight out of the warehouse. Very cool place to be.

In this comfortable position, the band has been working on playing quieter. This has the benefit of giving the music much more space, while the PA can deliver any volume required.

As a guitarist, the challenge becomes 'volume = tone'. I'm finding my Celestion Blue is projecting too much. As a result, I'm often holding back while playing.

I presume this is a combination of the Blue's upper mid projection and extreme efficiency. I love the speaker but is there something that has similar characteristics but dialled back a bit? My G12H30 doesn't work here; too spiky. The Fane is better but still too loud. Almost perfect is my Harmony combo with an old Jensen. But it doesn't quite have enough headroom for all situations.

My 12 watt Jansen is becoming the favoured amp. I'm playing opposite Keyboards now rather than two other guitars and I'm intrigued by how much this changes what my amps need to do.

Any thoughts on speakers I should try?
I'd experiment with a decent multiband EQ first, it is easier to use in a band practice than dropping in new speakers. If you can find the wavelengths where you want less (or more) volume, that will help you choose your next speaker with a bit more evidence.

Do you mic up the amps?

Have you thought about getting a sound engineer to come in and listen to the band practicing using your live rig, then helping you all get a bit more separation? From my own experience I know that it can be difficult to have space for a guitar in a mix that uses a lot of overdriven organ (for example) and both instruments will need to give a little space on the spectrum to improve the sound.

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by Reg18 »

Lots of good suggestions here, but your on the right track in my view trying a less efficient speaker.
Greenbacks will work well to reduce the volume but will sound different to a blue or G12H.
An attenuator will work also but again changes the sound and feel somewhat.
I think the Greenback heritage is even less than the standard. 96db by the looks.
Jansen also make a lot of lower sensitivity speakers.

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by Slowy »

JHorner wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:39 am Pull a perspex panel from your warehouse and put it in front of the speaker.
Great idea! Think I've got some in the shed.
"We were playing so loud that just one note on the guitar was sufficient".
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Re: Speaker options?

Post by Slowy »

Reg18 wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:48 pm Lots of good suggestions here, but your on the right track in my view trying a less efficient speaker.
Greenbacks will work well to reduce the volume but will sound different to a blue or G12H.
An attenuator will work also but again changes the sound and feel somewhat.
I think the Greenback heritage is even less than the standard. 96db by the looks.
Jansen also make a lot of lower sensitivity speakers.
I've never tried a Greenback. They seem to hang around in quads.
"We were playing so loud that just one note on the guitar was sufficient".
Ritchie Blackmore.

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by Slowy »

olegmcnoleg wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:07 pm
Do you mic up the amps?

Have you thought about getting a sound engineer to come in and listen to the band practicing using your live rig, then helping you all get a bit more separation?
Everything mic'd.

We have and we do. He lives in Wellington but visits regularly. Will be having this talk if I don't fix it first.

My intuition says start with a 10. I feel a 12 is just too big for the space. I've got gig rigs for Africa but I think I now understand Princetons a little better.
"We were playing so loud that just one note on the guitar was sufficient".
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Re: Speaker options?

Post by olegmcnoleg »

Slowy wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:32 pm
olegmcnoleg wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:07 pm
Do you mic up the amps?

Have you thought about getting a sound engineer to come in and listen to the band practicing using your live rig, then helping you all get a bit more separation?
Everything mic'd.

We have and we do. He lives in Wellington but visits regularly. Will be having this talk if I don't fix it first.

My intuition says start with a 10. I feel a 12 is just too big for the space. I've got gig rigs for Africa but I think I now understand Princetons a little better.
Do you have a pic of the settings on your mixer?

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by bender »

The wrong speaker won’t get fixed at the mixer. The best advice a sound engineer can give is get it right at the source.

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by JHorner »

bender wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:57 pm The wrong speaker won’t get fixed at the mixer. The best advice a sound engineer can give is get it right at the source.
My understanding is that he likes the speaker and likes the amp, but has too much stage volume.

So put something in front of it or point it away from the stage and let the mixer control the volume?

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by werdna »

I play mostly clean Fendery tones through a 50w amp with 6l6 tubes.

My cab is open backed with two v30s (Chinese).

What would you recommend?

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by bender »

JHorner wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:06 pm
bender wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:57 pm The wrong speaker won’t get fixed at the mixer. The best advice a sound engineer can give is get it right at the source.
My understanding is that he likes the speaker and likes the amp, but has too much stage volume.

So put something in front of it or point it away from the stage and let the mixer control the volume?
Yep, that’s one way of fixing it at the source.

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by bender »

I reckon a Jensen Alnico could be worth a shot. I really like them. Or an attenuator.

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by Slowy »

JHorner wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:06 pm
bender wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:57 pm The wrong speaker won’t get fixed at the mixer. The best advice a sound engineer can give is get it right at the source.
My understanding is that he likes the speaker and likes the amp, but has too much stage volume.

So put something in front of it or point it away from the stage and let the mixer control the volume?
Studio, not stage. And it has nothing to do with the mix, that's fine. It's about balancing the band's sound in a modest room before it hits the PA. Because we're now playing at a comparatively low volume, there's just too much guitar and I can't back the amp off any more without losing tone.
"We were playing so loud that just one note on the guitar was sufficient".
Ritchie Blackmore.

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by JHorner »

Slowy wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:08 pm Studio, not stage.
Studio... even more non speaker swap options... put the amp in another room or a closet...

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by bender »

Having your amp in a different room and only monitoring it through foldback is a cool thing to try if it’s possible in your space, but if not, there are a few good options in this thread.

Blue Marvel - cheap and available
Jensen or Weber Alnico - won’t sound exactly like a Blue, but great sounding, lower efficiency speakers, especially if you go down to a 10”. My old mint green tremolux has a P10R in it, and that sounds glorious. Down side is that they’re a pain to get in NZ.
Eminence Maverick - Ants has one - Won’t sound like a Blue, but is available, and you can dial in how efficient it is at the speaker itself.

Otherwise, I have a Brake Lite attenuator you’re welcome to borrow if you want to test out if that would work for you.

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Re: Speaker options?

Post by olegmcnoleg »

bender wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:57 pm The wrong speaker won’t get fixed at the mixer. The best advice a sound engineer can give is get it right at the source.
Lol yes, having spent the evening mixing I once again learned this lesson.

But i read the speaker as being a symptom, not necessarily the cause.

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