Solid state amps. Thoughts?

[Terexgeek]

Symantics...

If they are both putting out 30W the tube amp is not louder. Tube amp is only louder when you push it beyond its 30W and into distortion, hence it seems like it can go "louder without distorting" but in reality it can't.

But yes I do see what you mean, it could be confusing to describe it that way.

No, a guitarist doesn't give a shit about THD and doesn't listen to an amp with an oscilloscope. A guitarist cares if it sounds good, so crank a valve AC30 so it is loud but sounds good and put a decibel meter in front of the amp, then repeat with the transistor AC30, loud but sounds good, the meter will read louder on the valve amp. Not perception, not semantics, louder.
Just because a nineteen forties thermionic technician figured out a way of building reliable amplifiers with glass bottles doesn't mean the language and assumptions used are useful for discussing what's going on aurally.
If you don't hear the distortion, even though your oscilloscope does, it doesn't matter. Unless of course, you are a nineteen forties thermionic technician.

[sizzlingbadger]

True, I agree but the valve amp is louder because you turned it up more not because 30 valve watts are any different to 30 SS watts.

[Terexgeek]

True, I agree but the valve amp is louder because you turned it up more not because 30 valve watts are any different to 30 SS watts.

Only if you have an oscilloscope for ears.

[calling card]

My perception of valve / SS volume is valve (clean) hits hard like a steel hammer, SS more like a flat wooden board.... perception.
All bets are off on my SS Cerwin Vega 5000...beyond loud

[Terexgeek]

My perception of valve / SS volume is valve (clean) hits hard like a steel hammer, SS more like a flat wooden board.... perception.
All bets are off on my SS Cerwin Vega 5000...beyond loud

That's more of a compression issue, valves compress differently, therefore "feel" differently to transistors. That Pedal Show did a really good if a little rambly video on SS amps. Someone will be along with a link I imagine.

[RectifiedAmps]

We also have to consider that any typical amp is really two amps back-to-back: a preamp and power amp. Output power/wattage really only pertains to the power amp, whereas perceived volume and distortion relate as much to the preamp as the power amp. If you push an amp beyond 'clean' output, is it the preamp clipping or the power amp? I'm not 100% on this, but I believe the point at which a clean signal injected into the *power amp* begins distorting defines your wattage. Most tube amps get as much (or more?) distortion character from their preamp as they do from their power amp so factoring audible distortion (not THD) into solid-state vs. tube amp comparisons is not really a fair comparison. It would be interesting to do a blind test on a couple hybrid amps cranked up - does a tube pre + SS power amp sound 'sweeter/better/louder/etc' than a SS pre with a tube power amp?

[sizzlingbadger]

That's a good point, I agree the most accurate way to measure the power amp in a multi stage guitar amp would be to inject a signal into the power amp (PI probably) and then measure at which point the output section starts to distort. You can't get an accurate figure by injecting the signal at the front end because many if not most guitar amps are designed to distort the signal in the pre-amp to affect an overdriven tone at lower volumes.

Its also worth pointing out that manufactures are notoriously bad at specifying the real output power of their amps accurately.

Anyway I think in laymans terms we can agree valve guitar amps rated at a similar power to SS amps can be turned up louder because we still like the sound they make under overloaded conditions.

[Olderama]

saying that for most of us playing at home
SS is the best
With a Kemper lol

[robthemac]

Also confusing things is that wattage is not a measure of loudness, so the efficiency of the downstream components also makes a difference!

[kdawg2a]

So, to sum it all up, valves are best.

[kwhelan]

clickbait

[Slowy]

So, to sum it all up, valves are best.

But louder is always better.

[kwhelan]

except earplugs are expensive going by other threads

[calling card]

Funny the thoughts that enter my head looking in the hardware shop at a fire screen... hmm I could lag it more and block the beam.

[griff]

Am I the only one that doesn't mind the heavy lifting for every practice and gig for the sake of good tone..

My first amps were a Line 6 spider and Fender Mustang. They did the trick but I kept looking across and my band mates DSL and wondered why his tone was so much better. I knew nothing about tubes at this time.
Admittedly the spider and Mustang are pretty crap amps tonally. So got myself the Jet City and modded the crap out of it. Only tube amp I've owned and I'm very happy with it.
Would love to play through a Kemper or Axefx though. The Roland Cubes sound great too!
At this stage I'll keep playing tubes with a bunch of pedals and a 412, taking 20 mins to set up each time. Perfectly happy doing so.
Maybe I'll get a Katana with a footswitch one day..