WWII Gibson L-50

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WWII Gibson L-50

Post by nburf »

Okay, so a while ago I bought a 30's epiphone archtop and despite the fact that it came from overseas wrapped in bubblewrap in a cardboard box, I decided to go through the whole ordeal again.

I got this the other day and it sounds and plays really great. Luckily this came in its old ply case (better than nothing) AND a carboard box! Well packaged, survived fedex and customs. I picked up to avoid local couriers.

This one is a war time creation with a rosewood crossbar on the tail piece to save metal and a carved back, maybe made by one of the kalamazoo gals! No visible truss rod on this but people have found non-adjustable hidden ones on these despite the metal ban. No real way to tell without giving it an X-ray or taking the neck off. It has a 1 3/4" nut and a big comfortable heavy neck. It's had a few repairs but is very stable and playability is excellent. These war time L-50's are especially good value if you want a vintage full carved 16" archtop but can't afford a pre 1935 L5/4/10/12 (who can really?)

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by robthemac »

Oh that's so hot.

How much do you want for it?

(Hypothetically. Most of us broke AF).
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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by k1w1 »

Oh my, what a beauty. You could try a strong magnet on the neck to check for a rod in there. My wartime Harmony Cremona has no rod but a beefy neck and thick fretboard to compensate.

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by nburf »

robthemac wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:45 pm Oh that's so hot.

How much do you want for it?

(Hypothetically. Most of us broke AF).

Well.. I'm testing both the archtops out for a bit and then my partner says I have to pick one and sell the other. They're the same thing apparently..

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by quyet »

Dream guitar!

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by olegmcnoleg »

That is an awesome example. Love the finish, and Gibson were really making awesome hollowbodies at this time. Hope it sounds as good as it looks.

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by GrantB »

Beautiful. It looks to be in very condition given the age. Well done.
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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by nburf »

olegmcnoleg wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:49 pm That is an awesome example. Love the finish, and Gibson were really making awesome hollowbodies at this time. Hope it sounds as good as it looks.
It does! It's what I was looking for when I got the Epi, very rich and dry and sustain for days. I can string it with 12's and it sings up and down the neck. The epi needs 13's to really make a good noise and with a longer scale length it makes it a bit more difficult to play.
k1w1 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:22 pm Oh my, what a beauty. You could try a strong magnet on the neck to check for a rod in there. My wartime Harmony Cremona has no rod but a beefy neck and thick fretboard to compensate.
I tried a fridge magnet haha, either not strong enough or all wood in there.

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by robthemac »

I'm sure there's a local vet that would chuck it under an x-ray beam for a hand shandy.
Jops wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:46 am Spring is the comic sans of reverbs anyway.

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by nburf »

robthemac wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:28 pm I'm sure there's a local vet that would chuck it under an x-ray beam for a hand shandy.
:lol: I should ask next time I take the dogs in

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by clubhouse »

Very nice! In great shape and with the case patina, the set looks killa!

Is the pick-guard original? Is it cellulose or plastic? A buddy of mine has a '50s era L-50 in very similar spec (strip tuners, same body build but all metal tail-piece, no OHC) but no pick-guard...never seen one.

What styles do you play that you prefer arch-tops for? What strings and gauge are you driving them with?

Again, very well done my man!

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by nburf »

clubhouse wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:25 pm Very nice! In great shape and with the case patina, the set looks killa!

Is the pick-guard original? Is it cellulose or plastic? A buddy of mine has a '50s era L-50 in very similar spec (strip tuners, same body build but all metal tail-piece, no OHC) but no pick-guard...never seen one.

What styles do you play that you prefer arch-tops for? What strings and gauge are you driving them with?

Again, very well done my man!
According to the seller the pick guard is original, the fastenings etc are original for sure given the wear on them but it's hard to tell. It is celluloid though so it's the right material to be original. Gibson did do some models with tiger stripe pickguards and this sunburst finish is pretty unusual for a L-50, usually used on their more expensive L-7 etc models to show off the wood being a lighter burst. Having a fancier pickguard as well makes a bit of sense. The usual L-50 pickguards are black or dark tortoise celluloid. A 50's L-50 would have probably had a diamond full metal tailpiece, black guard with white trim, carved spruce top, slab maple cut laminate back, mahogany neck.

I mostly play americana and pretend to sound like dave rawlings but I do a lot of chording as well as I'm sometimes the only guitar on certain songs in the group. These are great guitars for blues/country and also for big band jazz chord melody stuff. Our originals do sometimes get a bit jazzy. I try to blame my time at NZSM though, not the guitar.

Edit: String gauge! I usually would put 13-56 phosphors on an archtop, but this one sounds really really good with the 12-54 monels it came with. I took them off and put my usual phosphors on the first day and immediately swapped them back. I wouldn't go lower than 12. Right now I'm trying out the set of 54-12 monels with the 13 and 17 gauge E and B from the other set. It's working pretty good!

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by bender »

What a beauty!

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by clubhouse »

nburf wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:53 pm According to the seller the pick guard is original, the fastenings etc are original for sure given the wear on them but it's hard to tell. It is celluloid though so it's the right material to be original. Gibson did do some models with tiger stripe pickguards and this sunburst finish is pretty unusual for a L-50, usually used on their more expensive L-7 etc models to show off the wood being a lighter burst. Having a fancier pickguard as well makes a bit of sense. The usual L-50 pickguards are black or dark tortoise celluloid. A 50's L-50 would have probably had a diamond full metal tailpiece, black guard with white trim, carved spruce top, slab maple cut laminate back, mahogany neck.
Is there any warping or apparent shrinkage of the pick-guard? Sometimes cellulose gets a little unstable and I've seen blemishes on soundboard finishes where cellulose off-gassing has effected the finish.

Dead right about the diamond (1 embossed and stretched across the string retainer bar of the) tail-piece. Also, I can recall it had edge binding on the neck as I've had to repair it in the past. It had shrunk and split around the fret marker(s) and come away from the neck. Yes to mahogany neck and laminate back you say...hmmm, ok, I get that. It is a very light weight guitar, sounds very brash and honky with an amount of treble cut...sits well with a flat-top as contrast in a mix. Yours the same?

Your tuners look in way better shape. The knobs on his have shrunk, discoloured and malformed like a mummie's toe-nail...yuk, and not the greatest to use...but still smooth to turn and hold tune well.

Like his, I see the fretboard on yours isn't a cantilevered extension over the body. Am I seeing right or is there a slight gap between board and body.

The case looks beautifully aged. Is the interior in good nick...still plush? Any idea of brand? Is it Gieb by chance? The whole set is fantastic...man, if I saw a band roll up with that kit in hand, they'd have my attention straight up...that sir, is style!
nburf wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:53 pm I mostly play americana and pretend to sound like dave rawlings but I do a lot of chording as well as I'm sometimes the only guitar on certain songs in the group. These are great guitars for blues/country and also for big band jazz chord melody stuff. Our originals do sometimes get a bit jazzy. I try to blame my time at NZSM though, not the guitar.
Nice, nice, nice, nice, nice...Americana is a pretty wide spread but I get the Rawlings reference...very partial to his work as well. I feel like I should know the 'NZSM' but I don't...help?

Do you play amplified at all? If so, how do you do it...bluegrass style, piezo, source mic? My buddy has an ebony Fishman bridge piezo pu that works ok. Can get well enough up there before SPLs intrude. Still has the original rosewood bridge stashed away.
nburf wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:53 pm Edit: String gauge! I usually would put 13-56 phosphors on an archtop, but this one sounds really really good with the 12-54 monels it came with. I took them off and put my usual phosphors on the first day and immediately swapped them back. I wouldn't go lower than 12. Right now I'm trying out the set of 54-12 monels with the 13 and 17 gauge E and B from the other set. It's working pretty good!
What advantage do monels give? Tone, sustain...? Is it necessary to use big gauges to drive the top or can you drop down a cog and still move enough air given modern amplification for volume purposes? Does the body choke-out and the sound become too light and 'stringy' if you use too light a gauge? How high is the 12th fret action say compared to an 'average' flat-top?

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Re: WWII Gibson L-50

Post by nburf »

Sorry mate, bad joke, NZSM is the nz jazz school in wellington. I didn't enjoy it very much and use it as a scapegoat when I get accused of getting too jazzy.

The Pickguard seems to be in really good shape. Much better shape than my epiphones celluloid one. There's not a lot of clouding or disturbances to see in it which is good. I've spoken to a few experts about whether the celluloid should just be taken off entirely to avoid any future problems with it breaking down and the general consensus is if you don't leave it in the case all the time then it's probably going to be fine. If it hasn't melted away in 80 years it's probably not going to do it any time soon and what little gas comes off it is not going to do anything to the guitar if it's aired often.

When I play amplified I ever play straight into an instrument Mic, whatever's on hand really, usually a SM57 or something but I also have a few goosenecks that I quite like and they're pretty good for reducing feedback. The really professional big band swing acoustic players all recommend goosenecks. You place can clip it to the pickguard or the tail piece and then you position the microphone so it's about 1 inch off the soundboard pointing directly at a spot above the bottom bass hole, halfway towards the bridge and set back slightly from the bridge if that makes sense. There's a guy on the jazz guitar forums that is regarded as one of the top swing guys called campusfive and he has this picture to demonstrate:

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You can get a really authentic acoustic sound this way. I don't much like the piezo quack or the humbucker sound on archtops so this is my go to.

The interior on the case is very old and simple. I wouldn't call it plush haha but it does the job and fits snuggly. It may even be older than the guitar itself. Looks more 30's to me than 40's with ply/cloth/shellac exterior. I have an archtop Calton case from the 80's that is about as heavy as a freight train and I'd probably put it in that if I was going anywhere that I was worried about protecting it.

As for the fretboard there's no gap, but the gloss might have made it seem that way. Some of the slightly earlier l-50 versions have a cantilevered extension but not many of them.

The back on this guitar is solid carved, easiest way to tell is usually to look for a centerseam where the two quartersawn pieces have been glued together. You can also look in the fholes and see if the grain inside matches the outside. Another tell is the curve of the arch on the back. A carved one will often have a flat rim before it meets the binding and can have more than one 'peak' in the arch. In terms of sound, I find the ply backs have a bit less sustain and a bit more of that boxy honky cutting sound. They both sound good but personally the carved backs appeal to my ear a lot more. Rawlings guitar is ply back though and I love his sound more than any other acoustic guitarist out there so..

Binding on the fretboard you say? That's definitely a 50's or later feature. This one doesn't have such luxury haha.

For action and strings, this has really good action all the way up. It's about 1/8th of an inch on treble and bass right now at the 12th, maybe a tad higher than an ideal flat top or flat wound setup but I dig at it pretty hard so its perfect for me. Has room to go up or down. The monels are a bit mellower than 80 20 bronze but brighter than the phosphor. Their tension is similar but they feel a bit softer maybe on the fingers. I think any 12s would sound good on this. Lighter and yeah the sound gets a bit thin and the top doesnt move much

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