PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by olegmcnoleg »

Plans comparing the body routing are here https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/158470480613066779/

They also show the position of the 12th fret.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by sizzlingbadger »

The neck pickup gets shifted down due to the extra 2 frets (hence its closer to the bridge and sounds less bassy), but then "everything else" gets shifted up to keep the neck position in the same place on the body. If you measure from the nut to the bridge and pickups then the only thing that has moved relative to the "endpoints of the scale" is the neck pickup, which is what I was trying to show yesterday. Another way to look at it is the body is shifted back to keep the neck joint the same. Overall the 24 fret guitar is slightly longer because of this (there is more wood behind the bridge)
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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by mrmofo »

If you look at the Custom 22 and Custom 24 (as these are very similar looking) you will also see that the 22 fret guitar has less 'wood' from the base of the guitar to the bridge than the Custom 24 because the Custom 24's bridge and bridge PU have had to be shifted to account for the slightly longer neck.

I know that the 'bridge' PU sounds pretty much the same and its the 'neck' PU that changes.

Its no wonder people think that must mean the Neck PU must have moved but the reality is that the bridge and bridge PU have moved but the distance between the bridge and neck has reduced.
The Pick-ups are dependent on the distance from the bridge as that is the starting point of the string and any vibration with the 'end' point shifting depending on where you fret the note (or nut if you pluck it open).

Because the Bridge PU is the same distance from the bridge in both the Custom 22 and 24 as it, along with the bridge, was moved closer to the neck, its sound doesn't change but because the neck is now 'closer' to the 'starting point' of the string, it changes the tone.
There are still some that think the neck PU is moved to accommodate the extra frets which only proves they cannot detect the difference in length of each.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by Bg »

I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by mrmofo »

Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
On all PRS CE Bolt-On, Standard, and Custom models, there is a 5-way rotary hybrid pickup switching system. This system is not offered on the company’s Singlecut or McCarty models. Here is the breakout: (Note: The switch position numbers below refer to the number displayed on the knob as the rotary switch is turned; this isn’t a 10-position switch…)

Position 10: Humbucking treble (bridge) pickup alone
Position 9: Outside coils of both pickups in parallel for what PRS calls a “deep and clear” sound
Position 8: Series single coils – PRS describes this as a “warm version of the classic in-between the bridge and middle pickups”
Position 7: Parallel single coils – Here PRS describes the sound as a “crisp version of the in-between the treble and middle pickups”
Position 6: Humbucking bass (neck) pickup alone
As you can see, this switching and pickup configuration offers a number of interesting and “non-standard” voicings.
There are still some that think the neck PU is moved to accommodate the extra frets which only proves they cannot detect the difference in length of each.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by olegmcnoleg »

sizzlingbadger wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:17 pm The neck pickup gets shifted down due to the extra 2 frets (hence its closer to the bridge and sounds less bassy), but then "everything else" gets shifted up to keep the neck position in the same place on the body. If you measure from the nut to the bridge and pickups then the only thing that has moved relative to the "endpoints of the scale" is the neck pickup, which is what I was trying to show yesterday. Another way to look at it is the body is shifted back to keep the neck joint the same. Overall the 24 fret guitar is slightly longer because of this (there is more wood behind the bridge)

The plans above don't show movement in the neck pickup... at least not relative to the body outline, but yeah they do compared to where the 12th fret lies: and this is the most important aspect of its position, where it lies on the scale. (Though apparently you can't always trust information you get off the internet :-) ). The plans show the neck pickup in the same place on the body, the bridge pickup moves up, along with the bridge. Obviously, this has implications for the neck as well, as Grant pointed out earlier in this thread, and the position of the 12th fret is also shown on those plans so you can see the difference.

Regarding differences in tone, yep, you might get some from the difference in pickup separation and bridge positioning. Personally, I much prefer the tone from a neck pickup that is as forward as possible (compared to where 12th fret is), thus I don't like 24 fret guitars as a rule.

What's also interesting is how PRS now are trying to accentuate even more this difference in tone between the front & rear pickups, as shown on this 408 model which uses both wide & narrow field pickup designs, e.g this one currently for sale on here: https://www.nzguitars.com/forum/viewtop ... 49&t=39168.

I think at this point we are all in violent agreement, yes?
Last edited by olegmcnoleg on Thu May 06, 2021 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by olegmcnoleg »

mrmofo wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:44 pm
Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
On all PRS CE Bolt-On, Standard, and Custom models, there is a 5-way rotary hybrid pickup switching system. This system is not offered on the company’s Singlecut or McCarty models. Here is the breakout: (Note: The switch position numbers below refer to the number displayed on the knob as the rotary switch is turned; this isn’t a 10-position switch…)

Position 10: Humbucking treble (bridge) pickup alone
Position 9: Outside coils of both pickups in parallel for what PRS calls a “deep and clear” sound
Position 8: Series single coils – PRS describes this as a “warm version of the classic in-between the bridge and middle pickups”
Position 7: Parallel single coils – Here PRS describes the sound as a “crisp version of the in-between the treble and middle pickups”
Position 6: Humbucking bass (neck) pickup alone
As you can see, this switching and pickup configuration offers a number of interesting and “non-standard” voicings.
I don't think PRS use the rotary switch any more, but they use a 5 way Strat-style blade switch wired to give these same 5 options--on some models. That rotary dial is a complete PITA when you are gigging because you need a finger & thumb to rotate it.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by HackSaw »

Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
I love my squier jazzmaster. I don't know how many frets it has. But I do love it.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by mrmofo »

olegmcnoleg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:54 pm
mrmofo wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:44 pm
Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
On all PRS CE Bolt-On, Standard, and Custom models, there is a 5-way rotary hybrid pickup switching system. This system is not offered on the company’s Singlecut or McCarty models. Here is the breakout: (Note: The switch position numbers below refer to the number displayed on the knob as the rotary switch is turned; this isn’t a 10-position switch…)

Position 10: Humbucking treble (bridge) pickup alone
Position 9: Outside coils of both pickups in parallel for what PRS calls a “deep and clear” sound
Position 8: Series single coils – PRS describes this as a “warm version of the classic in-between the bridge and middle pickups”
Position 7: Parallel single coils – Here PRS describes the sound as a “crisp version of the in-between the treble and middle pickups”
Position 6: Humbucking bass (neck) pickup alone
As you can see, this switching and pickup configuration offers a number of interesting and “non-standard” voicings.
I don't think PRS use the rotary switch any more, but they use a 5 way Strat-style blade switch wired to give these same 5 options--on some models. That rotary dial is a complete PITA when you are gigging because you need a finger & thumb to rotate it.
I violently agree: the 5 way rotary is quite horrible to use live. (horrible to use while rehearsing but less sweat issues)
I never know what pick up I'm on and sweaty fingers slide all over it.
It`s very well made otherwise I would have broken it by now.
But, you get true single coil tones. very clever.
There are still some that think the neck PU is moved to accommodate the extra frets which only proves they cannot detect the difference in length of each.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by H671 »

HackSaw wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:09 pm
Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
I love my squier jazzmaster. I don't know how many frets it has. But I do love it.
The audience wouldn't hear the difference between the PRS & your Squier anyway.
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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by olegmcnoleg »

H671 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:28 pm
HackSaw wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:09 pm
Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
I love my squier jazzmaster. I don't know how many frets it has. But I do love it.
The audience wouldn't hear the difference between the PRS & your Squier anyway.
LOL, so true.

I'm imagining all those outraged fans in the front row shocked by the complete change in tone as the lead guitarist decides to use his 22-fret PRS for the song, instead of the usual 24 fret PRS.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by GrantB »

Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
It's the thought that counts.
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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by GrantB »

mrmofo wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:44 pm
Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
On all PRS CE Bolt-On, Standard, and Custom models, there is a 5-way rotary hybrid pickup switching system. This system is not offered on the company’s Singlecut or McCarty models. Here is the breakout: (Note: The switch position numbers below refer to the number displayed on the knob as the rotary switch is turned; this isn’t a 10-position switch…)

Position 10: Humbucking treble (bridge) pickup alone
Position 9: Outside coils of both pickups in parallel for what PRS calls a “deep and clear” sound
Position 8: Series single coils – PRS describes this as a “warm version of the classic in-between the bridge and middle pickups”
Position 7: Parallel single coils – Here PRS describes the sound as a “crisp version of the in-between the treble and middle pickups”
Position 6: Humbucking bass (neck) pickup alone
As you can see, this switching and pickup configuration offers a number of interesting and “non-standard” voicings.
This is why I find myself playing my single pickup guitars more often...I can't remember the chords to Proud Mary let alone what a rotary switch might do.
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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by mrmofo »

GrantB wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:14 pm
mrmofo wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:44 pm
Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
On all PRS CE Bolt-On, Standard, and Custom models, there is a 5-way rotary hybrid pickup switching system. This system is not offered on the company’s Singlecut or McCarty models. Here is the breakout: (Note: The switch position numbers below refer to the number displayed on the knob as the rotary switch is turned; this isn’t a 10-position switch…)

Position 10: Humbucking treble (bridge) pickup alone
Position 9: Outside coils of both pickups in parallel for what PRS calls a “deep and clear” sound
Position 8: Series single coils – PRS describes this as a “warm version of the classic in-between the bridge and middle pickups”
Position 7: Parallel single coils – Here PRS describes the sound as a “crisp version of the in-between the treble and middle pickups”
Position 6: Humbucking bass (neck) pickup alone
As you can see, this switching and pickup configuration offers a number of interesting and “non-standard” voicings.
This is why I find myself playing my single pickup guitars more often...I can't remember the chords to Proud Mary let alone what a rotary switch might do.
i'm a huge 3way middle position fan.
the neck pick up volume on 9 bridge on 7.5
then constantly fiddle with the volume pots, finish the song and everything is different. i like the neck pu tone on a 22 fret prs. i've not heard the modern models. the cool extra stuff would change/enhance the middle position i imagine.

discovered the "se pauls guitar" today. might brave muscle boy at krd rs and see if i'm aloud to peer towards it
There are still some that think the neck PU is moved to accommodate the extra frets which only proves they cannot detect the difference in length of each.

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Re: PRS 22 vs 24 - body/neck/pickup position punch-up

Post by Bg »

GrantB wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:11 pm
Bg wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm I don't really care about any of this, but felt I should post in the thread anyway.
It's the thought that counts.
pretty sure I don't care about the thought either....
If your gut instinks tell you something isn't right. You are usually right.

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