Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Gear Aquisition Syndrome is a serious disorder.... FX etc

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Aquila Rossa
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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by Aquila Rossa »

if you're using IR's it's still gonna sound more or less "digital" even with a loaded tube amp. A lot of times what a modeller lacks is a bit of "air" from real cabs and microphones
Seen some stuff that allows for a room mic, so you get that kind of 'air'. The air you are talking about I guess is probably the type that makes the trousers flap in the breeze in front of a stack. It also applies sound pressure to a microphone, as well as inside the cab. Two Notes and others do model that stuff to some extent, but it is early days.
The interaction or 'air' between the cab and the pups is another. Most common way is to play close to the active monitors to get a bit of feedback. Okay for a home or studio situation, but trickier if on stage with no cab for feedback. Muse guitarist uses modelling and loads etc, but still has one amp he wanders up to on stage when he wants feedback.

I have seen vids of Pete Thorn using a reactive load and IRs and it does not sound digital to my ears. The feel would be different tho. No air.

With the Laney IRT Studio I am getting something I have not had for few years of using only modelling. Not plugged into tube amp that whole time, but with the IRT what I always felt was missing from modelling was suddenly there. I am not sure how to describe it tho. It is just 'something' and I like it :D

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by godgrinder »

What I found is that even when recorded, compared to an actual mic'd up amp, amp going through IR of the same cab/mic combination still sounds somewhat "flat" to me. And that aspect of it is comparable to full digital rigs.

I guess the actual reactions between power amp/speakers/mic's are a lot more complex than the IR can capture. Also when you make an IR cab sim you still have to use a power amp (usually hifi SS ones) which will have some influence to the sound too.

Still perfectly usable in a mix though, but I found it's often not quite worth the hassle of hooking things up (unless you always play thru monitors or headphones then you can leave things that way). Most of the times I'll chuck a mic in front of the cab. When I can't bothered I think plugins aren't too bad, considering it just involves a few mouse clicks and still sounds ok.
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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by dayl »

Its pretty much getting to the point where if you cant get a decent recording of a guitar tone using plugins, apps, emulations etc... you only have yourself to blame. The technology is coming along exceptionally well. Different story for sitting at home solo noodling, but as far as sitting in the mix is concerned, its pretty much a closed case with few exceptions and fewer excuses.

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by dayl »

Thanks to @JHorner for the link https://www.rubbermonkey.co.nz/Canare/C ... Cable-25ft

I now have a brand new $18 Behringer compressor in the mail to fill that empty space in my life and pedalboard.

Isnt it beautiful!!! :mrgreen: 8)

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by JHorner »

dayl wrote:Thanks to @JHorner for the link https://www.rubbermonkey.co.nz/Canare/C ... Cable-25ft

I now have a brand new $18 Behringer compressor in the mail to fill that empty space in my life and pedalboard.

Isnt it beautiful!!! :mrgreen: 8)

Image
The thanks go to @Mattallica :)

I now have 2 x 25ft microphone cables. $22 for an $80 canare cable was too good to pass up.

/power amp is only 8ft away from my mic.
/will come in handy when we get a gig somewhere with an actual stage.
/yeah right!

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by griff »

dayl wrote:Its pretty much getting to the point where if you cant get a decent recording of a guitar tone using plugins, apps, emulations etc... you only have yourself to blame. The technology is coming along exceptionally well. Different story for sitting at home solo noodling, but as far as sitting in the mix is concerned, its pretty much a closed case with few exceptions and fewer excuses.
With a comment like this you are questioning personal subjectivity.
When I play through a sim, like Rossa said, there's something missing. I'm not the greatest player but I tend to bring out characteristics of my style a bit better when playing through tubes. Like the bell like tones at the high end, the 'no fizz' and harmonic overtones and touch sensitivity that the sims I've played simply cant reproduce.
It's personal preference. What is decent tone anyway?
What is for me isn't for you and vice versa.

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by griff »

Aquila Rossa wrote:
With the Laney IRT Studio I am getting something I have not had for few years of using only modelling. Not plugged into tube amp that whole time, but with the IRT what I always felt was missing from modelling was suddenly there. I am not sure how to describe it tho. It is just 'something' and I like it :D
Keep hearing great things about the IRT. Do you use the direct out often? Do you have to couple it with IR's?

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by Aquila Rossa »

griff7628 wrote:
Aquila Rossa wrote:
With the Laney IRT Studio I am getting something I have not had for few years of using only modelling. Not plugged into tube amp that whole time, but with the IRT what I always felt was missing from modelling was suddenly there. I am not sure how to describe it tho. It is just 'something' and I like it :D
Keep hearing great things about the IRT. Do you use the direct out often? Do you have to couple it with IR's?
I am using the USB out at this stage and cab sims in my recording software. I like the amp a lot, but it does have quite a narrow range of tones. I am planning on using pedals into the clean channel to address that. Stuff like the Suhr Riot for the hot rod sound and some kind of tweed like pedal etc. I am waiting for the Two Notes Captor to go on sale. The Laney's internal load forces the amp to run at less than one watt when using no cab, instead of 15 watts. The Two Notes unit will allow me to run it at full power and use their cab software in DAW. I am hoping it will open the amp up a bit.

P.S. The Laney IRT Studio will get you into Tony Iommi's more modern tones very easily. It has enough gain to do the 'brootalz' and Djent etc, but is not tight enough. EQ in the loop and the right IR may help, but there are easier ways to go for that sound.
Last edited by Aquila Rossa on Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by godgrinder »

Aquila Rossa wrote:The Laney's internal load forces the amp to run at less than one watt when using no cab, instead of 15 watts. The Two Notes unit will allow me to run it at full power and use their cab software in DAW. I am hoping it will open the amp up a bit.
Have you tried running the FX send of the amp into DAW? Obviously it won't have the power amp sound but that should open it up quite a bit for now.
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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by Aquila Rossa »

godgrinder wrote:
Aquila Rossa wrote:The Laney's internal load forces the amp to run at less than one watt when using no cab, instead of 15 watts. The Two Notes unit will allow me to run it at full power and use their cab software in DAW. I am hoping it will open the amp up a bit.
Have you tried running the FX send of the amp into DAW? Obviously it won't have the power amp sound but that should open it up quite a bit for now.
Not yet. Two Notes does power amp sims, so can add that into the mix. Thinking I can use a mix of that, along with USB and the speaker out to the reactive load. Power amp is nice on the Laney tho. The dynamics control too. That 1 watt resistor for the Laney's internal load sounds quite good surprisingly enough. Can;t help thinking full power will be better tho.

The Two Notes Captor is not just for the Laney. I plan to build and 18 watter and a 5E3 to use it with. Sounds the Laney does not do.

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by Aquila Rossa »

p.p.s. I really like the brootalz and djent tones.......for about 20 seconds. Then I get bored shitless.

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by griff »

Aquila Rossa wrote:p.p.s. I really like the brootalz and djent tones.......for about 20 seconds. Then I get bored shitless.
I'm with ya there.

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by dayl »

griff7628 wrote:
dayl wrote:Its pretty much getting to the point where if you cant get a decent recording of a guitar tone using plugins, apps, emulations etc... you only have yourself to blame. The technology is coming along exceptionally well. Different story for sitting at home solo noodling, but as far as sitting in the mix is concerned, its pretty much a closed case with few exceptions and fewer excuses.
With a comment like this you are questioning personal subjectivity.
When I play through a sim, like Rossa said, there's something missing. I'm not the greatest player but I tend to bring out characteristics of my style a bit better when playing through tubes. Like the bell like tones at the high end, the 'no fizz' and harmonic overtones and touch sensitivity that the sims I've played simply cant reproduce.
It's personal preference. What is decent tone anyway?
What is for me isn't for you and vice versa.
Nah not really. Im saying that by the time you add Drums bass and mix it all down, the subtle nuances that set real toobz and sims apart have taken a backseat. Thats how close things really are these days. You want harmonic overtones? thats just a plugin away if you need more. If you cant get the sound you like off the bat to record with a sim then that could be an issue as we would often need to vibe with our toan to enable us to lay down the best performance. But in saying that, these 'feels good sounds good' tones dont always sit in the mix well.

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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by Delayman »

dayl wrote: these 'feels good sounds good' tones dont always sit in the mix well.
I agree with this bit - lots of tones that work well in isolation own don't work well in the mix live or recorded.
They keep telling me tone is in the fingers, but I have yet to see a "look at my fingers" thread.
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Re: Forums have been slow, how about a 'In the mail' thread?

Post by Bg »

Delayman wrote:
dayl wrote: these 'feels good sounds good' tones dont always sit in the mix well.
I agree with this bit - lots of tones that work well in isolation own don't work well in the mix live or recorded.
especially when the drummer kicks in...
So, is that low alcohol or no alcohol at all? mmmm, no alcohol, do you want to try it? Noooooooooo.

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