I suck at guitar

Its all in the fingers, or is it?

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Jay
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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by Jay »

sizzlingbadger wrote:
Unfortunately this is exactly the sort of thing that confuses me, it has no explanation as to why some of the terms even mean. I think one of the problems absolute beginners have is being taught by people that forget they already know so much. Its like someone is trying to explain something to you but they forget they are speaking in a different language.
Well said, that's how I feel as well. I actually had to think long and hard what Molly meant with T T and st. Then I figured it probably was Tone Tone semitone. But like you said, he did not comprehend that there are idoits like me who don't even understand the basic of basics. :crazy:
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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by Molly »

jvpp wrote:
sizzlingbadger wrote:
Unfortunately this is exactly the sort of thing that confuses me, it has no explanation as to why some of the terms even mean. I think one of the problems absolute beginners have is being taught by people that forget they already know so much. Its like someone is trying to explain something to you but they forget they are speaking in a different language.
Well said, that's how I feel as well. I actually had to think long and hard what Molly meant with T T and st. Then I figured it probably was Tone Tone semitone. But like you said, he did not comprehend that there are idoits like me who don't even understand the basic of basics. :crazy:
Edit: Long-winded reply removed. See revised post.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by sirvill »

sizzlingbadger wrote: Lydian = not sure about that one...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFlPeBsDug0[/youtube]


If it makes you feel any better i understand all of that stuff and I'm still shit :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by druz15 »

every couple years or so I find myself thinking I'm pretty good, and then a couple years later I'll figure out something or pick something up that's so simple and obvious that I feel like an idiot for not doing it 4 years ago.

There is no end game, don't worry about it.
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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by Kiwiaxe »

I think the easiest way to understand modes is as follows.

Forget that shit about D mixolydian is the same as playing G major but starting on D. That is about as practically useful as being told that you make a house with wood and nails. Not incorrect, just not useful.

Play the major scale. Everyone knows the sound of that. Sing do a deer if you need to.

Play the minor scale. You might need to learn that one (and in the "build a house" approach of above, remember it is the same notes as the major scale 1.5 tones - that's 3 frets for us guitarists - up). You will actually already know the sound of that too, I reckon.

Once you have those two scales under your fingers (and in your ears), think of modes as follows in order of importance (in my view):
Mixolydian. Think of this as what you play over a dominant 7th chord (e.g.: E7). Just like a major scale but with a flattened - i.e.: one fret down - 7th note. That flattened 7th note is what gives you the mixolydian sound. Think major blues.
Dorian. Just like a minor scale but with a raised 6th note. That raised 6th note is what gives you the dorian sound. Think Carlos Santana.
Lydian. Major scale but with a raised 4th note. That raised 4th note is what gives you the lydian sound. Think Satriana's flying in a blue dream. Frankly, I very rarely use it.
Phrygian and Locrian. Get the fuck outta here. Don't bother.

Seriously, start with usual major and minor and then get to know the sound of the b7th (in mixolydian) and #6th (in dorian) and its easy from there. Trust your ears.

Then learn the harmonic minor ahead of the other modes.

Edit: Mac autocorrect hates me.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by Molly »

Kiwiaxe wrote: Forget that shit about D mixolydian is the same as playing G major but starting on D. That is about as practically useful as being told that you make a house with wood and nails. Not incorrect, just not useful.
I said: "I'm not sure we all make sense of music theory in the same way. I have my own way of understanding modes that works for me." And it does. Anybody who learns modes quickly realises that to invoke a particular mode what they're effectively doing is shifting their playing like they were in another key. It's not 'shit' to say that (though I liked the rest of your post...). I find it easier to remember the relevant 'shift' than to remember a given mode's step pattern.
jvpp wrote:... But like you said, he did not comprehend that there are idoits like me who don't even understand the basic of basics. :crazy:
I said at the start of the post: "For nobody in particular, this is how I see it."

So, it wasn't that I 'did not comprehend' your level. It wasn't leveled. It was just some off the cuff notes on opening up the guitar to try to help those that understood it better 'map' the fretboard.

I suppose snippets of information like this are of little value in a forum context. Definitely not worth the time they took to write. I've binned them. Will stick to spending my lunchtimes teaching the next generation.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by Kiwiaxe »

My post was intended to be humorous and tongue in cheek whilst hopefully imparting some wisdom to those who have said in this thread that they need guidance. Sorry if you took offence; it was not intended.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by Kiwiaxe »

PS: the downside of playing modes as a shifted key is that playing D mixolydian means you probably want to be conscious of your 1 3 5 and b7 from a melodic perspective. But playing the G shape means you will probably end up - unintentionally - landing on what is usually your safe G notes of G B D and F# when those aren't going to sound the best (representing the 1 3 4 and 6 notes in D mixolydian).

But again, just my own experience and not wanting to put down each person's approach. The way you describe is how I was taught it in classical theory years ago and was great to understand but of very limited use to me in improv/composition.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by mttn3 »

Molly wrote:I suppose snippets of information like this are of little value in a forum context.
Yeah somewhat, for my level of knowledge! I'm reading all the posts here fully and trying to park the information in the back of my head for when I'm actually ready to deal with things like myxomatosis and building houses with garlic salad dressing but, in reality, a year down the track I'm not going to think it's time for me to understand something in particular and go re-read page 3 of my "I suck at guitar" thread for the details.

Having said that, from my point of view it's really helpful when there are existing threads with layman's explanations and different personal approaches to these music theory concepts which I can just search for and read at my own leisure. It's really great to have them on the forum, the issue is just that I (or anyone) would be unlikely to find them at the relevant time for learning. If you know what I mean.

tl;dr I appreciate and try to take in all help but don't spend all day typing up the details.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by jeremyb »

My advice is just turn on more delay pedals and use an ebow :mrgreen:
Slowy wrote: That's the problem; everything rewarding is just such hard work. Regret takes much less effort.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by sirvill »

Kiwiaxe wrote: Phrygian
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVnpPmXbzKI[/youtube]


Every time I hear Phrygian I think of the least useful guitar lesson I've ever seen, above.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by Jay »

Molly wrote:
Kiwiaxe wrote: Forget that shit about D mixolydian is the same as playing G major but starting on D. That is about as practically useful as being told that you make a house with wood and nails. Not incorrect, just not useful.
I said: "I'm not sure we all make sense of music theory in the same way. I have my own way of understanding modes that works for me." And it does. Anybody who learns modes quickly realises that to invoke a particular mode what they're effectively doing is shifting their playing like they were in another key. It's not 'shit' to say that (though I liked the rest of your post...). I find it easier to remember the relevant 'shift' than to remember a given mode's step pattern.
jvpp wrote:... But like you said, he did not comprehend that there are idoits like me who don't even understand the basic of basics. :crazy:
I said at the start of the post: "For nobody in particular, this is how I see it."

So, it wasn't that I 'did not comprehend' your level. It wasn't leveled. It was just some off the cuff notes on opening up the guitar to try to help those that understood it better 'map' the fretboard.

I suppose snippets of information like this are of little value in a forum context. Definitely not worth the time they took to write. I've binned them. Will stick to spending my lunchtimes teaching the next generation.
I disagree with you here Molly. I actually do appreciate these snippets especially if there are two guys (you and Kiwiaxe) who complement each other with different explanations for the same thing. I try to read/understand some theory every now and then often get stuck because there is no one around who can explain the finer detail. This thread has taught me about modes which I never understood until you two presented it in a different light, ie, easier words... different scenarios...

And yes, I missed the bit about "for nobody in particular" so my statement is indeed incorrect.

And just so you know, I actually printed out a snippet of your writing a year ago or so and it is still in my music room so I can check it out every now and then :D

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When faced with quality, I recognise it every time.

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by calling card »

Embrace sucking at guitar as a simple art form.
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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by MattH »

It has to be said that everyone sucks at guitar in some way.

Imagine putting BB King in a speed metal band. Or Dimebag Darrell in Fairport Convention. Or asking Malmsteen to play something with some actual musical merit...

;-P

Satriani may be able to technically play it all, but even he has admitted that he'd ditch it all to be able to transcend the instrument like Hendrix could.

It's a relentless and frustrating journey. Just stick at it. Some people have it all at 20 years old. Some (most of us) take a lifetime to get halfway competent. You is what you is.

Peace brothers!
All the gear... absolutely no idea...

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Re: I suck at guitar

Post by sirvill »

Or someone like Guthrie Govan who probably can play it all but then people say he has no feeling!

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