Line6 Heeeeeelix!

Conway · Post by **Conway** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:01 pm

One issue I see is that Line 6 seems to have numerous products of this type already. After the HD500X they released the Amplifi pedal, then 5 minutes later they did Firehawk and now this. Do they continue to support all of them? Do they need so many products doing the same thing? Surely a cheaper version and an expensive pro version are enough? And naming confusion in the market place???

I do actually like the look of this one because as well as guitar, it does vocals and it has midi, so it could fit into my setup with Kemper and mic and my Jamman Stereo in one of the loops.

Kloppsta · Post by **Kloppsta** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:06 pm

NZRS_Matt wrote:Do I detect just a small hint of cynicism there? hahaha

not just a small hint.....lol

i agree with all of your points. i guess i am just jaded and "assume" that being the big corporate that line6/yamaha are, their interest lies in moving units and profits margins moreso than making a product that doesn't cut any quality corners and is built to last. in saying that though, high quality components probably are pretty cheap in this day and age when purchased in bulk. Yamaha probably makes some of the components themselves!

actually, as i say that i remember the yamaha fx units that were very impressive for their day, so perhaps with the line 6 and yamaha powers combined fractal really does have some serious competition on their hands?!

out of interest, dont suppose you know what DSP chips they will be using?

Eruera · Post by **Eruera** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:57 pm

Ahhh DSP chips, the NOS Germanium trannie of amp modelling. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't see the actual chip being of importance so long as it has the power to calculate the model it is tasked with. If the tail is wagging the dog in that the bean counters specify a cheap chip and the coders have to simplify the model to run I can see it affecting the quality, but I assume at the price point of this the engineers develop the model to degree of complexity required to achieve their objectives and then find the most cost effective chip that gives the necessary performance. I wouldn't write off DSP units for not using TigerShark chips, especially given that the Axefx modelling approach is about as inefficient as they come.

EDIT: not having a crack at you Klopp, just pissed off with Fractal cos there is still no FX8 in sight

Eruera · Post by **Eruera** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:05 pm

I don't think that this is as obviously aimed at the Axefx as people are saying. Those who want the bleeding edge at all cost and can afford standalone loop switchers, amp controllers and midi boards on top will continue to do so. For a more 'working class' musician who wants something that does the job well, and hopefully better that previous unit, and bundles in some bonus features to make life easier, something like this is a better fit. Good enough is good enough so to speak.

sopachrga · Post by **sopachrga** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:06 pm

It allows for external IR loading too!

sopachrga · Post by **sopachrga** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:09 pm

Also, from L6:

Helix is running two of the fastest non-TigerSHARC SHARCs you can buy—the 450 MHz ADSP-21469s—with dual MCUs (one for audio duties and another dedicated to nothing but UI). If I've read between the lines correctly, they're the exact same DSPs that'll be in Fractal's AX8, but I'm just making an educated guess here.

But also note that we have 20 years of experience. Squeezing the most out of existing resources to make everything sound and feel as authentic as possible requires a ton of know-how and finesse. It's still ALL about the code.

xCaptainx · Post by **xCaptainx** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:06 pm

This has absolutely everything that I lamented the HD500 for (and then switched to Fractal) without the god awful user interface that Fractal Audio has haha.

The changing parameters using just the foot pedal thing is genius. I had to take a knee often when gigging with just the HD500 to adjust to the room. Doing this mid song, mid set, naturally, while playing is a stroke of genius. Very cool.

Sounds like they have really taken the ideascale suggestions very seriously. Very cool. Looking forward to hearing more.

Zaulkin · Post by **Zaulkin** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:25 pm

Keen as to try one!

Really interested to see how this would compare to something like an AX-8. The AX looks like it might be a bit smaller

Glad they've ditched the massive power adapters.

Hot_Grits · Post by **Hot_Grits** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:40 am

sopachrga wrote:It allows for external IR loading too!

This is probably the single biggest deal about the Helix. Third party IRs improve any modeling product greatly.

With the AX8 coming out the Helix is going to need to be a big leap for Line 6.

What I'm really hoping is this activity from Fractal and line 6 prompts Kemper to do a cut down product -like a unit that loads profiles but can't profile.

Kiwiaxe · Post by **Kiwiaxe** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:42 am

I don't think kemper will do that. They seem very German in their approach of being driven by quality and not so much chasing a market. I also see them as being in a very different market to line 6 and fractal.

Hot_Grits · Post by **Hot_Grits** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:46 am

Kiwiaxe wrote:I don't think kemper will do that. They seem very German in their approach of being driven by quality and not so much chasing a market. I also see them as being in a very different market to line 6 and fractal.

The only real point of difference is the ability to profile other rigs -very popular with studios.

Other than that, a very similar sandpit to Fractal. Similar price point, quality of sound and feel. And the fractal stuff is used by studio guys a lot as well.

And Line 6 will join in/cannibalise if the Helix delivers equivalent basic sounds.

big if.

I hope they do.

As far as quality goes, Fractal are delivering the same modeling as the AFX2 with the AX8 -and build is supposed to be just as good. For Kemper there need be no drop in quality in order to deliver a product with fewer features. The real question is how much can be saved by stripping out non-essential stuff. Then it's down to the will of the company to do it.

handsoffmatt · Post by **handsoffmatt** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:00 am

Kloppsta wrote: i agree with all of your points. i guess i am just jaded and "assume" that being the big corporate that line6/yamaha are, their interest lies in moving units and profits margins moreso than making a product that doesn't cut any quality corners and is built to last

I've always disliked this "evil large corporation" kind of mentality

Large corporate does not have to equate to disinterested profit mongers who don't care about their product. A great example of this is BMW. Or Harley Davidson. Or Oakley. Or Apple. These are all mammoth corporations who produce high quality products with soul and flair.
The fact they do it so well naturally leads them to profit.

Having spent time at Line 6 HQ, I can tell you that it is a company founded, run and staffed by guitarist gear junkies who are highly driven by a desire to innovate and are extremely proud of what they do.

SimpleSi · Post by **SimpleSi** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:10 am

NZRS_Matt wrote:Judging by the USD price of $1,499 - and the kiwi dollar at $0.70 (and tipped to go lower)

USD $1,499
Convert at, say $0.67 = $2,237
Add GST = $2,572

So they're effectively gonna go out the door at around $2,600. Still $1,000-ish cheaper than Axe FX II XL.......and you can HP one of these at your local friendly Rockshop.

Old mate Currency makes things look expensive, even though it's the "same" just converted.

Similar to PRS - you convert a Custom 10top 24 over with shipping and GST and it still ends up around $7000 here..

Dammit New Zealand! get your act together for importers!

willow13 · Post by **willow13** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:32 am

SimpleSi wrote:
Dammit New Zealand! get your act together for importers!

you sound like the exporters for the last few years...our dollar is likely to continue to drop for the foreseeable future so buying from the US is gonna hurt...and don't even mention where petrol prices are gonna go again

Conway · Post by **Conway** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:44 am

SimpleSi wrote:Similar to PRS - you convert a Custom 10top 24 over with shipping and GST and it still ends up around $7000 here..

If you want a 24 fret PRS with 10 top, buy my Santana MD for $4000.

I'll even deliver it to Hamilton for you!

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