Germanium, or other "left wing" transistors...

Post by **GrantB** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:48 pm

Mmmm...I am looking at some of the Germanium based Fuzz pedals on eBay. They all claim to be the tone monster I am looking for....but I have been sucked before, and not only for $5 in a dark alley. Do these acclaimed vintage parts "really" give me that even broken sweet tone that I am seeking? Or will I pay big bucks for a boutique pedal that has "Hong Wah - ROC" sound qualities but I'll convince myself otherwise due to the embarassing $ involved? And what about these DS-1 mod pedals and stuff? Analogue Man? I have a G2D from eons ago (serial no 4!) which kicks bootay, but I need something more subtle for those emotional moments. What about CreamTone? Or even a Matchless 12AX7 foot job? I'd love some input, so to speak.

philipnz · Post by **philipnz** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:00 pm

I've just received a Keeley modified TS-808 and CE-2 Chorus. Both are just beautiful. I had a new TS-9 a while back and this Keeley job just blows it to the weeds. True bypass now too.

Post by Bg » Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:13 pm

I have a BD2 which is pretty good, did the Keeley mods to it myself, very smooth. Also a Bluesbreaker which does the job too. Welcome to borrow them and try them out if you want?

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:14 am

There are people who swear that flower power (geranium) transistors sound entirely different to silicon, or gallium- arsenide.

I can't hear any difference on stage.
But you might.

ash · Post by **ash** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:46 am

Germanium semiconductors do have a different distortion pattern to silicon. Much more like a valve, but not quite. It takes more than just germanium to do the job though. G2D have several different models now, so they might be worth a look. Also Musicworks now stock the Canadian Tone Bone 12AX7 pedals which are reported to be the mutts nutts.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:04 am

All any of us can do is try and see for ourselves, never forgetting that our listeners couldn't tell the difference between ANY gear we might think is the best possible choice and whatever we may think is the worst possible choice.

philipnz · Post by **philipnz** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:50 am

Hey, don't you read those harmony central reviews where the guys report that people are always coming up after the show and complimenting the guitarists tone? Basically I take the view that if the punters can hear the tone over their singing then it was a shit gig anyway.

Post by **GrantB** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:00 am

Those Tone Bone's sound interesting - might have a look. Thanks BG for the kind offer

I bought a "Green Machine" just now eBay, and am getting a Fuzz Face with Germanium bits, orange drops, etc etc to build myself...would still consider a real bottle pedal though...this is severe GAS bought on by my bonus being paid this week. Yeehar...also getting a '57 p/up for the bridge on my Standard (although I do like the current GoldenAge)...I'll do some sampling when all this samick arrives...

Post by Bg » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:03 am

cool mate, no worries. The Tubeworks 'bottle' pedals always get get reviews - though I'm biased by the amp I got

Its got fantastic overdrive just on the dirty channel even at low volume, I don't really need an overdrive pedal...

Post by **GrantB** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:15 am

Totally agree philip...I have asked people "did ya hear that (whatever I did) during (whatever the song was)"...they look at me blankly....yeah, our tone quest is a personal thing really. Recording though is where the variations and nuances of each effect spedal/amp/gat rig do come through.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:20 am

That is true, I guess each of us are playing primarily for ourselves - we wanna put out THAT sound - which is different in each of our heads...

Post by **GrantB** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:52 pm

Update time. Ii won the Gibson 57 p/up auction. It lands for $120 which I think is OK. The Green Machine ended up at $200 and the Fuzz Face DIY with nazigermanium tranny's was $129...I'll be a busy boy when it all arrives. I remember seeing one of us with 57's ...BG? What am Ii in for? Cheers

Post by Bg » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:57 pm

57 Classics are very smooth, relatively low impedence and I like them

I'm crap at describing sounds - but I know what I like

Classics are better up close to the strings rather than set right down in the pickup rings. Lift them all the way up then play with the pole pieces to get an even sound.

B45-12 · Post by **B45-12** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:57 pm

Like Rog I was around and constructing electronic gear when the trannies were really getting underway (late 50's early 60's) and I think it might help to mention the following. The Germanium npn or pnp transistors were the first to be produced in the late 50's but they were noisey, had a limited frequency range and used slightly higher voltage (0.6 as compared to 0.2) across the junctions plus were prone to thermal runaway (self destruction in simple terms). But they were eventually (by mid 60's) cheap.

Next came Silicon npn or pnp which worked to a higher frequency, used a lower voltage, had less noise, were far less prone to thermal runaway but cost quite a bit until late in the 60's.

Later on came Unijunction and Fet trannies which actually behave a bit more like valves that the germanium or silicon ones, plus things like LSI opamps and the back packages with legs called IC's

Now the early 60's manufactures of effects used the cheapo Germanium trannies that they could get partially for the distortion/noise but mostly for the cheapness. Things like OC 44 or OC 71/72 in the UK. So it really was not a matter of which one worked best but what the cost was, that mainly determined what was used.

Given that the original aim was to produce accurate, clean amplification with transistors, it's ironic guitarists used them largely for distortion. However the early 60's fuzz boxes (ie as on satisfaction by the rolling stones) using germanium trannies in a clipping mode often sound 'sweetest' to a person's ears so I suppose you could argue for them but in my opinion it is only marginal and certainly not worth paying premuim prices for.

All in all, the circuits for such fuzz boxes are relatively simple and you are as liable to get as much value from a Dick Smith kit as from a expensive made up box - certainly I'd suggest try the el cheapo first - unlike guitars the difference is not generally huge and one of the best fuzzes I have was one I made up myself using a circuit from a 1960's edition of practical electronics.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:11 am

> 1960's edition of practical electronics

Yep, that was my mag of choice too. I built so many weird and wonderful contraptions from their circuits - great fun at the time!