Discuss the stuff that makes your ears bleed.

Moderators: Slowy, Capt. Black

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BY Mattallica
#786852
werdna wrote:
Mattallica wrote:
moliere wrote:Anyone after some stock modules? got a Blackface, Recto and SL+ available. $150 each or $400 for all 3.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DpotlxxdDwssc40X2


How about all three for a Synergy BE-100?


Matt, I have just bought Moliere's Blackface module. Since I already have one, I am thinking of modifying it to be a Deluxe, as per the schematics on the Grail Tone website. Earlier you looked at the schematics and said that the Tweed module is quite different to the Blackface. At some point if you are curious and have time, I wonder if you could do me the favour of comparing the schematics of the Blackface and Deluxe and let me know if such a mod is viable please.


I looked at PCB layouts specifically Andrew, the schematics are hard to come by.

However, yes, the blackface can be modded to the deluxe spec.

They both use the same PCB layout, so it's just a matter of identifying the different values and replacing them
User avatar
BY Mattallica
#786854
werdna wrote:When I turn up the gain on the Blackface module, there is more gain. However when I turn up the module volume dial, there is also more gain. Result: very difficult to get a clean tone on the BF module at a volume that can compete with other modules.


I am also having the same issue. I'm wondering if the blackface can be modded to the clean module spec and if this would solve the issue...
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BY Mattallica
#786856
werdna wrote:My Tweed is gainy. Put in two 5751 pre amp tubes. It's about 30% less gainy, and sounds beefier.


Back to your earlier question about a tweed switch on the blackface. I'm still figuring this stuff out, but it's all to do with what circuit paths are available between the different gain stages.

I think you put a blackface switch on the tweed, because it involves bypassing some of the PCB.

However, you couldn't put a tweed switch on the blackface, because it involves adding some circuit back in which isn't available on the PCB
User avatar
BY werdna
#786865
Mattallica wrote:
They both use the same PCB layout, so it's just a matter of identifying the different values and replacing them

Thanks Matt. Kind of you. The mod I have in mind is going to be activated by a switch, so that the module covers both BF and Deluxe.

As to cleaning up the Blackface volume/gain issue, if you mod it to Clean perhaps that will remedy it. I had wondered the same thing.
User avatar
BY Mattallica
#787171
werdna wrote:
Mattallica wrote:
They both use the same PCB layout, so it's just a matter of identifying the different values and replacing them

Thanks Matt. Kind of you. The mod I have in mind is going to be activated by a switch, so that the module covers both BF and Deluxe.

As to cleaning up the Blackface volume/gain issue, if you mod it to Clean perhaps that will remedy it. I had wondered the same thing.


No trouble, that's the extent of my limited knowledge. I could do the same with my blackface module actually. All we need is a nice gut shot of the deluxe module, without the tube shield. They have a deluxe or two at Auckland cbd musicworks...

It should be as simple as modding to clean spec. That said I don't know if the clean module breaks up the same way when maxed out. I'll look into it all when I get back from t'uk
User avatar
BY werdna
#788259
For sale: Blackface module. Selling because I have two. This is the module that I use most. It is very useful, covering from clean to mild overdrive. It's like say channel one on a Mark V. $150 plus shipping.
User avatar
BY Optical
#793198
Ive modded several of the older MTS modules for friends before, just about any preamp is possible.
hmu if you guys want a tweak or a rewire.
User avatar
BY Mattallica
#793203
Optical wrote:Ive modded several of the older MTS modules for friends before, just about any preamp is possible.
hmu if you guys want a tweak or a rewire.


If you've got any tips for basic tweaking that would be great!

I understand the adjustment of the input and cathode caps but i'm not having any luck with the rest of the components.

Werdna and i both want to reduce the gain and max the volume of our blackface modules
User avatar
BY Optical
#793205
Lots of ways to do that, interstage attenuation and tube biasing would be the main methods. Cathode caps affect gain but also frequency response, so changing those change can drastically alter the voicing.

what are the gain and volume controls doing now that you dont like?
User avatar
BY Optical
#793217
Ah sorry, reduce gain and more volume. Cant really increase the volume, it isnt being attenuated anywhere that wont add more gain.
The first gain stage is fairly cold though, you could bias that stage hotter, then reduce the gain on the following stage. That's about it really.
Something like R17 to 1k8; Delete C4. If too still much gain, change R28 to 100k. That will run more gain on the first stage but should not clip, so less gain there. Then runs less gain on the following stages that do clip. Net result will be less distortion overall and about the same volume without changing the tone
Last edited by Optical on Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BY Mattallica
#793246
Lots of ways to do that, interstage attenuation and tube biasing would be the main methods. Cathode caps affect gain but also frequency response, so changing those change can drastically alter the voicing.

what are the gain and volume controls doing now that you dont like?


Optical wrote:Ah sorry, reduce gain and more volume. Cant really increase the volume, it isnt being attenuated anywhere that wont add more gain.
The first gain stage is fairly cold though, you could bias that stage hotter, then reduce the gain on the following stage. That's about it really.
Something like R17 to 1k8; Delete C4. If too still much gain, change R28 to 470k. That will run more gain on the first stage but should not clip, so less gain there. Then runs less gain on the following stages that do clip. Net result will be less distortion overall and about the same volume without changing the tone


Thanks man! i meant to say reduce the gain while the module is at full volume. I've got my volume dimed and the gain as low as i can but it still has too much crunch for my liking.

So how does increasing/decreasing the resistor value effect the circuit in general?
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