Moderator: Capt. Black

#824470
ok, so we're recording tomorrow.
I have the anxious feeling of being the only person in the room who wants to have a loud as fark Marshall 50 watt blasting pure crystal lattice into a 57 an inch and a half away off set to the cone.
now I have a few ideas:
can I just set it up outside?
can I shove it behind the couch?
is anyone using the toilet?
can I set up my Orange as well?

I`m thinking amps sound better, they do. amps do sound better. first takes sound better, overdubbing is a horrid experience.
I want to coat the tracks with freaked out Celestion vacuum toob madness.

don't get me wrong, I utterly respect the other members opinions. they let me use my amp last time. they are a bunch a great people with rocking authentic conceptual ideas.
but, I have heard one of them say "just use the De-eye"
the thought of a De-Eye makes me want to curl up in the appropriate shuddering fetal position complete with spontaneous bowl emptying filling up my grey tracksuit pants. while making a rather loud WHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA noise.

so; to avoid that happening:
do any of you good people have and are open to sharing any ideas on best separation for an amp in a live take setting.

Bass and Keys are most probably going direct.
#824473
Are you recording in a pro environment with access to isolation screens, baffling or separate, isolated rooms off the main live room? Is it a lounge and bedroom environment with some home gear that could be used? Are you all tracking "live to tape" at once (including drums) or is it a case of guide tracks, single instrument at a time and overdubs?
#824476
In my experience, if recording live, you'll either have to have your amp being recorded in another room isolated from the live drum room, or record the drums and other parts live with you using DI, and then re-record your parts with the amp to the live recordings.
The advantage of the second method is that you'll get a better guitar sound, and can then double or quad track your guitar parts and add other textures etc. The live feel will still be there as that's how the drums were recorded.
#824477
clubhouse wrote:Are you recording in a pro environment with access to isolation screens, baffling or separate, isolated rooms off the main live room? Is it a lounge and bedroom environment with some home gear that could be used? Are you all tracking "live to tape" at once (including drums) or is it a case of guide tracks, single instrument at a time and overdubs?


I didn't go to the pre production meeting at the studio. I believe there is another room I could use, from the description it's a larger room with a floating wood floor. I thought this room might be too reverberant or too large? or it could be perfect?
I`ve only recorded in totally dead rooms or overdubbed in the control room.
you have given me a few ideas about Baffeling the amp, even in the large room I might be able to tone it down a tad
brilliant ThankYou!!
#824478
Scooter13 wrote:In my experience, if recording live, you'll either have to have your amp being recorded in another room isolated from the live drum room, or record the drums and other parts live with you using DI, and then re-record your parts with the amp to the live recordings.
The advantage of the second method is that you'll get a better guitar sound, and can then double or quad track your guitar parts and add other textures etc. The live feel will still be there as that's how the drums were recorded.


have you ever set the amp up outside?
I imagine it would be quite dry sounding, could be good.
I will most probably need to re record the parts, it becomes a bit of a chore tho, I want to get a Ramones vibe and just blast it on there
#824482
Use the other room. If it's a big room, point the cab into a corner of the room reasonably close to the corner so that the corner has a diffusion affect on the audio wave from the speaker. You can dampen the reverberant quality of the other room by laying a couple or three rugs or carpets down on the floor and put the cab on them to isolate from the floor and deaden the wood. Drape other hard surfaces (walls, windows) in the direct line of fire that may reflect the sound with absorption/diffusion baffling and around the cab to lessen the room influence on the mic.

Close mic'ing with a 57 at high SPL will track mostly speaker but as the mic is cardioid in pick-up pattern, it will pick up some reflected sound from the rear lobes which has a slight phase/eq effect on the mic. Audition the amp/speaker/mic placement via the desk (headphones) to get the exact sound to tape that you are after. Have a band-mate/engineer/tech in the room with the mic and baffling move the mic (and if necessary the baffling behind the mic) to choose the best speaker driver and then exact position on that cone that you like. Instruct them via mic to their headphones so you aren't in the same room so aren't confused by direct sound from the speaker and the signal to tape that will be recorded.

If it sounds shit in the room but fantastic to tape and back to your cans, go with that as that will be the recorded guitar tone. "Fixing it in the mix" is always a band-aid and takes ages costing time, enthusiasm and money.

Be happy with your sound as once set, it may have a critical influence over your performance with the band live to tape.

You can play live with the rest of the band in the live room with headphones on to monitor your amp/cabinet and enjoy performing with the band without your amp bleeding into their instrument mics.

I wouldn't record with the cabinet outside as although it will be pretty dry, you would probably get a load of spill from environmental sounds into the mic that you can't control...cars, planes, dogs barking. Was always a pain in the a.r.s.e. recording on location and you'd get a plane flying overhead in the dialogue audio... :x

Great photo that Single Coil posted :thumbup: Probably doing overdubs, hearing the mix in the cans. Note the baffling behind the cabs to reduce room reflections. Remember, remember to fuckin' enjoy the performance to tape as the tape will know. It's The Ramones ffs so get that attitude on tape as much as the notes and kill it! :D Blitzkrieg Bop Dude.
Last edited by clubhouse on Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
#824486
If you do have your cab in the same room, point it away from the rest of the mics. Put some physical baffling between it and the room and deaden the wall that the drivers are pointing at to reduce reflections from that wall back into the room and the other mics. Same deal about finding your sound via the desk and cans. DON'T put baffling too close to the mic as that will negatively effect the phase/eq relationship and make it sound scooped and poos.
#824490
This is such a big question with so many facets and angles to consider.

But the most pressing issue IMO is.... Grey track suit pants?

Really?

#ohtheshame

:P
#824497
Capt. Black wrote:This is such a big question with so many facets and angles to consider.

But the most pressing issue IMO is.... Grey track suit pants?

Really?

#ohtheshame

:P


yea, they're old and have the required stretchy bit at the front. great for getting a ladies attention at the Mt Eden Countdown.

swagger swagger swagger hey.

my misses isn't gonna be there so its the only chance I will get to wear them outside
#824500
clubhouse wrote:Use the other room. If it's a big room, point the cab into a corner of the room reasonably close to the corner so that the corner has a diffusion affect on the audio wave from the speaker. You can dampen the reverberant quality of the other room by laying a couple or three rugs or carpets down on the floor and put the cab on them to isolate from the floor and deaden the wood. Drape other hard surfaces (walls, windows) in the direct line of fire that may reflect the sound with absorption/diffusion baffling and around the cab to lessen the room influence on the mic.

Close mic'ing with a 57 at high SPL will track mostly speaker but as the mic is cardioid in pick-up pattern, it will pick up some reflected sound from the rear lobes which has a slight phase/eq effect on the mic. Audition the amp/speaker/mic placement via the desk (headphones) to get the exact sound to tape that you are after. Have a band-mate/engineer/tech in the room with the mic and baffling move the mic (and if necessary the baffling behind the mic) to choose the best speaker driver and then exact position on that cone that you like. Instruct them via mic to their headphones so you aren't in the same room so aren't confused by direct sound from the speaker and the signal to tape that will be recorded.

If it sounds shit in the room but fantastic to tape and back to your cans, go with that as that will be the recorded guitar tone. "Fixing it in the mix" is always a band-aid and takes ages costing time, enthusiasm and money.

Be happy with your sound as once set, it may have a critical influence over your performance with the band live to tape.

You can play live with the rest of the band in the live room with headphones on to monitor your amp/cabinet and enjoy performing with the band without your amp bleeding into their instrument mics.

I wouldn't record with the cabinet outside as although it will be pretty dry, you would probably get a load of spill from environmental sounds into the mic that you can't control...cars, planes, dogs barking. Was always a pain in the a.r.s.e. recording on location and you'd get a plane flying overhead in the dialogue audio... :x

Great photo that Single Coil posted :thumbup: Probably doing overdubs, hearing the mix in the cans. Note the baffling behind the cabs to reduce room reflections. Remember, remember to fuckin' enjoy the performance to tape as the tape will know. It's The Ramones ffs so get that attitude on tape as much as the notes and kill it! :D Blitzkrieg Bop Dude.


thank you so much for this!
#824502
just a couple of minor points

Firstly...using a real amp will feel better if you are in the room with it because you are familiar with that. It will not sound better in the mix than say...any $500+ modeler from the last 15 years. Recording in the control room will feel odd if you are not used to it...BUT, your ears will last longer, the communication with the engineer will be better, and monitoring via speakers is much nicer than wearing headphones.

secondly...if it is an actual studio environment...perhaps trust the engineer to do their job. :thumbup: