Pedal manufacturers in here...

Moderators: Slowy, Capt. Black

User avatar
BY NZRS-Dave
#816600
We do have some second hand gear but we really want to steer clear of it. It's such a minefield. If we buy something in and it breaks down we have to fix it. If someone buys something that dies we have to fix it. It takes up space in the store and we are overstocked as we are.

We occasionally do it as a promotion - "Trade in Trade up" - but we get stuck with too many wives.
#816602
NZRS-Dave wrote:Slowy said - "destroys our ability to trust them"

That's good for me as a retailer though in both the new and second hand markets


I think he meant ‘destroys our ability to trust’ the second-hand market.
User avatar
BY NZRS-Dave
#816603
twangnsnarl wrote:
NZRS-Dave wrote:Slowy said - "destroys our ability to trust them"

That's good for me as a retailer though in both the new and second hand markets


I think he meant ‘destroys our ability to trust’ the second-hand market.


Yep that's what I took out of it. But I added that new market as well. For me as a legitimate retailer - people distrusting cheap prices and things found on the internet - is a good thing. And that doesn't matter whether it's second or new.
User avatar
BY mrmofo
#816637
are you absolutely sure they landed on the moon?

because the old space walk took place under water. unless there are water bubbles in space.

and no to Cloning as Slowy said!!
User avatar
BY NZRS-Dave
#816645
mrmofo wrote:and no to Cloning as Slowy said!!


*deflates JB inflatable clone and slides back under the bed*
User avatar
BY mrmofo
#816647
NZRS-Dave wrote:
mrmofo wrote:and no to Cloning as Slowy said!!


*deflates JB inflatable clone and slides back under the bed*



Its nice and warm under here, slightly sticky with a definite whiff of Packing tape and bubble wrap
User avatar
BY NZRS-Dave
#816649
mrmofo wrote:Its nice and warm under here, slightly sticky with a definite whiff of Packing tape and bubble wrap


Packaging tape is not the smell. It's choloform.

It's also not inflatable.

Nor a clone.

Ah screw it ... I have JB unconscious under my bed.
User avatar
BY mrmofo
#816662
NZRS-Dave wrote:
mrmofo wrote:Its nice and warm under here, slightly sticky with a definite whiff of Packing tape and bubble wrap


Packaging tape is not the smell. It's choloform.

It's also not inflatable.

Nor a clone.

Ah screw it ... I have JB unconscious under my bed.


I`ll be over shortly with the Jumbo Lube n Sniff wall hanger
User avatar
BY Slowy
#816724
kwhelan wrote:compared to things like cloned pharmaceuticals, guitar pedals are not high on the list,
and they do have R& D , they have just landed on the moon FFS

I agree. Have to be circumspect here. A government and a Nation that sees nothing wrong with the wholesale theft of other people's IP suggests a defective moral compass that does nothing to encourage me to a sense of warmth and trust.
#816746
Slowy wrote:
kwhelan wrote:compared to things like cloned pharmaceuticals, guitar pedals are not high on the list,
and they do have R& D , they have just landed on the moon FFS

I agree. Have to be circumspect here. A government and a Nation that sees nothing wrong with the wholesale theft of other people's IP suggests a defective moral compass that does nothing to encourage me to a sense of warmth and trust.


It's not a lack of moral compass that has driven their counterfeit culture.

A Chinese friend at work explained that when he was growing up in China, something as simple as as Microsoft Windows licence would cost the equivalent of a years wage for the average person. The stuff we have in our everyday lives and take for granted in the west were so far beyond obtainable, copying and faking items was the only way they could have them. So they just grew up with the fakes and rip offs, it was ingrained in their culture.

It used to be a minor problem, the cheap Chinese fakes were clearly cheap and clearly fake and as China didn't like outsiders, you could only really get them in China, which wasn't easy to do.

Now as China have become a manufacturing super power, the doors are a bit more open and the internet has brought us in direct contact with the counterfeiters, it is more of a problem. But only for us, your average Chinese person sees nothing wrong with it, it is perfectly normal for them.
User avatar
BY Slowy
#816758
A logical starting point. The days of China the Innovator are close at hand. I predict much squealing and talk of immoral behaviour.

Look forward to it.
User avatar
BY NZRS-Dave
#817036
Slowy wrote:A logical starting point. The days of China the Innovator are close at hand. I predict much squealing and talk of immoral behaviour.

Look forward to it.


A Chinese friend said to me that he finds it an odd dichotomy that the Chinese can copy anything in the world and do a very convincing copy - but they can't innovate or invent something. They have the skills - but not the foresight.

We then discussed that perhaps there is so much money to be made in copying something that it grossly outweighs the R & D budgets for building things.

Do I get points for using dichotomy?
User avatar
BY sty
#817039
NZRS-Dave wrote:
Slowy wrote:A logical starting point. The days of China the Innovator are close at hand. I predict much squealing and talk of immoral behaviour.

Look forward to it.


A Chinese friend said to me that he finds it an odd dichotomy that the Chinese can copy anything in the world and do a very convincing copy - but they can't innovate or invent something. They have the skills - but not the foresight.

We then discussed that perhaps there is so much money to be made in copying something that it grossly outweighs the R & D budgets for building things.

Do I get points for using dichotomy?


That's very interesting to hear.

From a software perspective, and from the experience I've had with outsourcing, insourcing and actually working with developers and people from these countries, I've always said that to be honest we (US/European/NZ/Oz etc.) have had nothing to fear from Indian software developers since beyond being able to do pretty much whatever you tell them (in great detail) to do they generally cannot develop from scratch or to a complex brief.

However the developers I know with Chinese backgrounds have been very good developers, my only minor criticism would have been that they were far too aggressive in their objective to rise through the ranks and get out of programming and into management.

But it's an interesting perspective that they can't or won't innovate and R&D themselves. I wonder whether they're just too good at doing to be able to implement, or whether from a business perspective, where innovation or entrepreneurialism is born theres just too strong a business in copying or manufacturing to order?

What I found interesting recently was when buying some decent banana plugs for my AV setup I decided on some Nakamichi ones as the best, I then found the exact same ones from china at a competitive price. From what I can tell they are likely to be the exact same units that Nakamichi are selling (it's hard to bother faking a gold plated mechanical connector when you've got the specs) I also wonder if Nakamichi didn't just brand a high quality generic part manufactured in china anyway.
User avatar
BY dylan
#817271
Wow, those do take "clone" to the next level. Odd that with all that attention to accuracy the Tim still does not have the voicing switch.

I just wish the Chinese would make a cheap clone midi switcher pedal. Something like a MFC06 that costs $100 new off aliexpress.
#817290
It may come as no surprise to learn that innovation is expensive. Good ideas rarely pop out of nowhere. Whether it comes from one dude in his garage, or a corporate team of designers.....there is a lot of blood, sweat and tears that go into any original design. There's a lot of time, equipment, materials and just straight-up man hours in designing even something as simple as a new pedal (that's not a thinly-veiled clone).

It's this which makes the "clone culture" a hard pill to swallow for anyone who's spent any time within the industry. It sucks when any designer, at any level, puts months or years of effort into a well-thought out design, then someone else (be it an offshore manufacturer, or a "boutique" pedal builder ) simply clones the circuit, paints a new enclosure and reaps the rewards. There's very little cost in this - they are quite simply profiting from someone else's hard work.

People sometimes love to rag on us (Roland / BOSS) because we're the "big guys"..... but the reality is that there are real humans in our company that are intensely passionate to innovate new products and work long hours over many months at a time to do so. We strive to constantly innovate and create new market segments and it's a glorious feeling when one of our "out of the box" ideas becomes a commercial success.

To then have a company just rip off our design and start undercutting us in the marketplace (since they have no R&D costs to recoup) actually feels like a personal insult sometimes.

But hey....that is the way the world is now. Guess we gotta live with it.