Band dynamics
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- SimonHirst
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Re: Band dynamics
Some great points in here! My theory has always been if you sound good as a band overall in a rehearsal type situation, then stepping in to a fully miced/mixed environment you're going to sound great with a good engineer. I think it's something that really sets the top bands apart! Radiohead spring to mind. There's a hell of a lot going on at times and they sounded amazing, in Vector no less!
Since we're sharing bad/funny soundman stories. I was playing keys for a friend mine who was doing very well within NZ at one stage. He got booked for an A&R showcase, along with Holly Smith (who was amazing!). Talk about pressure gigs. There were about 50/60 people in Backbeat. All pretty much from record labels, or other industry parts that could pretty much make or break him. Anyway, we were told to let them know what we needed for backline, and they said they'd got a Roland RD700 stage piano all good. There was a 10 minute change over and I go to check the keys and there's no sustain pedal. Which is like being given a guitar without strings... I ask the soundy where it is and he basically says "it wasn't on the rider so deal with it". Haha! It started getting very heated, before someone said I could use Hollie's Fender Rhodes. Sounded great, but a bit weird when the piano sound was needed. Anyway, he was pretty harsh in my opinion, however it taught me a very valuable lesson. Sometimes more info is better!
Since we're sharing bad/funny soundman stories. I was playing keys for a friend mine who was doing very well within NZ at one stage. He got booked for an A&R showcase, along with Holly Smith (who was amazing!). Talk about pressure gigs. There were about 50/60 people in Backbeat. All pretty much from record labels, or other industry parts that could pretty much make or break him. Anyway, we were told to let them know what we needed for backline, and they said they'd got a Roland RD700 stage piano all good. There was a 10 minute change over and I go to check the keys and there's no sustain pedal. Which is like being given a guitar without strings... I ask the soundy where it is and he basically says "it wasn't on the rider so deal with it". Haha! It started getting very heated, before someone said I could use Hollie's Fender Rhodes. Sounded great, but a bit weird when the piano sound was needed. Anyway, he was pretty harsh in my opinion, however it taught me a very valuable lesson. Sometimes more info is better!
- GrantB
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Re: Band dynamics
Nothing beats playing with a bunch of people who understand their own dynamics within the context of the band before anything else.SimonHirst wrote:Some great points in here! My theory has always been if you sound good as a band overall in a rehearsal type situation, then stepping in to a fully miced/mixed environment you're going to sound great with a good engineer.
"Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature. Unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping." - Hubert Reeves
- SimonHirst
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Re: Band dynamics
Absolutely. Band context is everything!!GrantB wrote:Nothing beats playing with a bunch of people who understand their own dynamics within the context of the band before anything else.SimonHirst wrote:Some great points in here! My theory has always been if you sound good as a band overall in a rehearsal type situation, then stepping in to a fully miced/mixed environment you're going to sound great with a good engineer.
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Re: Band dynamics
I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
- Bg
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Re: Band dynamics
Thats why my rider is very explicit. Right down to the mango in a rainforest.
So, is that low alcohol or no alcohol at all? mmmm, no alcohol, do you want to try it? Noooooooooo.
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Re: Band dynamics
By day he's the CEO of the NZXCapt. Black wrote:You’re thinking of Mark Peterson. He was fantastic and one of the coolest guys. He’s resident sound guy at Whammy bar now which is making that venue a lot more popular to play at.MogwaiBoy wrote: One of my other favs was the inhouse engineer at the King's Arms - I forget his name, but his presence was seamless... he was so efficient and the sound there was always fantastic on stage and off.
It cracked me up a few years ago when Mark was suddenly in the news getting inducted into the NZ music hall of fame. None of us had realised he was ex-Straitjacket Fits!
I think I know who that threatening asshole sound guy might be too. He’s actually pretty good at his job but not a “people person”
Amazing guy!
Genuine Old Frontier Gibberish
- Molly
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Re: Band dynamics
Not fair on folks that have paid their money. Reminds me of the time Sharon Osbourne tried to sabotage Iron Maiden's sound. Couldn't have given two bucks for the thousands of people looking forward to seeing them.kwhelan wrote:I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
- SimonHirst
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Re: Band dynamics
Yeah, sad, but very commonplace! It's a strange thing. My thoughts are, if you're the headliner then 90% of people are there especially for you because they know and love your music. If you need to disable parts of the PA/gear to hold your own against an opening act most won't have heard of, then I would firmly suggest the problem may lie elsewhere...kwhelan wrote:I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
- rickenbackerkid
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Re: Band dynamics
Terexgeek wrote: Your definition of "Good dude" and mine are different.
haha. a poor choice of words on my part. perhaps it would be better to say he INTENDS to be a good dude, but is so utterly lacking in normal relational skills that he's a right quim.
- Lawrence
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Re: Band dynamics
Experienced this a few times... Worst was mixing a support band for Supergroove. The sound check went well and all smiles...then before the gig started their tech tool 18dB off the system gain at the Graphics. First song Im like WTF!. It wasn't a huge room so stage sound from amps was quite loud, but I struggled to get the vocals clean above the band. I found the problem but the Engineer was watching me and stopped me from fixing it...kwhelan wrote:I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
Mixing at Western Springs with Knightshade I had a more subtle attempt...the main act stayed close to time at soundcheck, then the Aussies middle act did theirs....than the Singer insisted on walking around the stadium for 30 minutes while the band jammed ":to check the system sounded good". I ended top with the system shut off for pre gate security checks after 2 minutes of our check. Fortunately that one ended up sounding pretty good in the end!
On there other hand I had a band I played in do a debut gig at Mainstreet supporting The Flowers (IceHouse) back in 1980. Howard Page from Jands was their FOH guy and he gave us everything - it was a lesson in how to be a professional!
GrantB wrote:
“You might be cool, but you’ll never be playing a white Steinberger through a JC120, wearing a white jumpsuit with white shoes and sporting a mullet cool”.
“You might be cool, but you’ll never be playing a white Steinberger through a JC120, wearing a white jumpsuit with white shoes and sporting a mullet cool”.
- MogwaiBoy
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Re: Band dynamics
I get that here's often a kind of gain-staging happening, like if you have a dance music event with a bunch of DJs and you want to slowly build up to the headliner without peaking too early, etc etc - but deliberate sabotage of an opening bands' sound is unethical in my opinion.
- smallface
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Re: Band dynamics
Another sound guy who treated all bands with the same level of respect was Greg Carroll (RIP). Used to play at Mainstreet a lot eons ago and every time Greg mixed the bands he was totally focused on getting it right for every band.Lawrence wrote:Experienced this a few times... Worst was mixing a support band for Supergroove. The sound check went well and all smiles...then before the gig started their tech tool 18dB off the system gain at the Graphics. First song Im like WTF!. It wasn't a huge room so stage sound from amps was quite loud, but I struggled to get the vocals clean above the band. I found the problem but the Engineer was watching me and stopped me from fixing it...kwhelan wrote:I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
Mixing at Western Springs with Knightshade I had a more subtle attempt...the main act stayed close to time at soundcheck, then the Aussies middle act did theirs....than the Singer insisted on walking around the stadium for 30 minutes while the band jammed ":to check the system sounded good". I ended top with the system shut off for pre gate security checks after 2 minutes of our check. Fortunately that one ended up sounding pretty good in the end!
On there other hand I had a band I played in do a debut gig at Mainstreet supporting The Flowers (IceHouse) back in 1980. Howard Page from Jands was their FOH guy and he gave us everything - it was a lesson in how to be a professional!
I climbed on the back of a giant albatross which flew through a crack in the cloud to a place where happiness reigned all year round and music played ever so loudly
- StratMatt
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Re: Band dynamics
We had a really good gig with Michelle from The Rock Factory in Auckland looking after sound for us. Bloody grateful too because sound check sounded great but there was no sound when we kicked off. We wouldn't even have known where to start but she sorted it straight away.
Loving it so far
- Lawrence
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Re: Band dynamics
YES! Greg was a true gentleman.
GrantB wrote:
“You might be cool, but you’ll never be playing a white Steinberger through a JC120, wearing a white jumpsuit with white shoes and sporting a mullet cool”.
“You might be cool, but you’ll never be playing a white Steinberger through a JC120, wearing a white jumpsuit with white shoes and sporting a mullet cool”.
- rickenbackerkid
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Re: Band dynamics
she's awesome.StratMatt wrote:We had a really good gig with Michelle from The Rock Factory in Auckland looking after sound for us. Bloody grateful too because sound check sounded great but there was no sound when we kicked off. We wouldn't even have known where to start but she sorted it straight away.