Band dynamics

All things guitar, Les Pauls, Strats, Teles, Tokai, Ibanez etc. etc. etc.

Moderators: Slowy, Capt. Black

User avatar
SimonHirst
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1046
meble-kuchenne.warszawa.pl
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Has liked: 357 times
Been liked: 254 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by SimonHirst »

Some great points in here! My theory has always been if you sound good as a band overall in a rehearsal type situation, then stepping in to a fully miced/mixed environment you're going to sound great with a good engineer. I think it's something that really sets the top bands apart! Radiohead spring to mind. There's a hell of a lot going on at times and they sounded amazing, in Vector no less!
Since we're sharing bad/funny soundman stories. I was playing keys for a friend mine who was doing very well within NZ at one stage. He got booked for an A&R showcase, along with Holly Smith (who was amazing!). Talk about pressure gigs. There were about 50/60 people in Backbeat. All pretty much from record labels, or other industry parts that could pretty much make or break him. Anyway, we were told to let them know what we needed for backline, and they said they'd got a Roland RD700 stage piano :thumbup: all good. There was a 10 minute change over and I go to check the keys and there's no sustain pedal. Which is like being given a guitar without strings... I ask the soundy where it is and he basically says "it wasn't on the rider so deal with it". Haha! It started getting very heated, before someone said I could use Hollie's Fender Rhodes. Sounded great, but a bit weird when the piano sound was needed. Anyway, he was pretty harsh in my opinion, however it taught me a very valuable lesson. Sometimes more info is better!

User avatar
GrantB
ADMIN
Posts: 15843
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:04 am
Location: Where I need to be
Has liked: 1352 times
Been liked: 2087 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by GrantB »

SimonHirst wrote:Some great points in here! My theory has always been if you sound good as a band overall in a rehearsal type situation, then stepping in to a fully miced/mixed environment you're going to sound great with a good engineer.
Nothing beats playing with a bunch of people who understand their own dynamics within the context of the band before anything else.
"Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible god and destroys a visible nature. Unaware that this nature he's destroying is this god he's worshipping." - Hubert Reeves

User avatar
SimonHirst
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1046
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Has liked: 357 times
Been liked: 254 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by SimonHirst »

GrantB wrote:
SimonHirst wrote:Some great points in here! My theory has always been if you sound good as a band overall in a rehearsal type situation, then stepping in to a fully miced/mixed environment you're going to sound great with a good engineer.
Nothing beats playing with a bunch of people who understand their own dynamics within the context of the band before anything else.
Absolutely. Band context is everything!!

kwhelan
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:25 pm
Has liked: 123 times
Been liked: 93 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by kwhelan »

I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me

User avatar
Bg
Site Admin
Posts: 43187
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:13 am
Location: Auckland
Has liked: 2254 times
Been liked: 3873 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by Bg »

Thats why my rider is very explicit. Right down to the mango in a rainforest.
So, is that low alcohol or no alcohol at all? mmmm, no alcohol, do you want to try it? Noooooooooo.

foal30
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 7554
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:14 pm
Location: South Brighton
Has liked: 608 times
Been liked: 946 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by foal30 »

Capt. Black wrote:
MogwaiBoy wrote: One of my other favs was the inhouse engineer at the King's Arms - I forget his name, but his presence was seamless... he was so efficient and the sound there was always fantastic on stage and off.
You’re thinking of Mark Peterson. He was fantastic and one of the coolest guys. He’s resident sound guy at Whammy bar now which is making that venue a lot more popular to play at.

It cracked me up a few years ago when Mark was suddenly in the news getting inducted into the NZ music hall of fame. None of us had realised he was ex-Straitjacket Fits!

I think I know who that threatening asshole sound guy might be too. He’s actually pretty good at his job but not a “people person” :lol:
By day he's the CEO of the NZX
Amazing guy!
Genuine Old Frontier Gibberish

User avatar
Molly
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 24937
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:17 pm
Has liked: 2482 times
Been liked: 2794 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by Molly »

kwhelan wrote:I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
Not fair on folks that have paid their money. Reminds me of the time Sharon Osbourne tried to sabotage Iron Maiden's sound. Couldn't have given two bucks for the thousands of people looking forward to seeing them.

User avatar
SimonHirst
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1046
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Has liked: 357 times
Been liked: 254 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by SimonHirst »

kwhelan wrote:I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
Yeah, sad, but very commonplace! It's a strange thing. My thoughts are, if you're the headliner then 90% of people are there especially for you because they know and love your music. If you need to disable parts of the PA/gear to hold your own against an opening act most won't have heard of, then I would firmly suggest the problem may lie elsewhere...

User avatar
rickenbackerkid
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 6700
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:52 pm
Has liked: 206 times
Been liked: 651 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by rickenbackerkid »

Terexgeek wrote: Your definition of "Good dude" and mine are different.

haha. a poor choice of words on my part. perhaps it would be better to say he INTENDS to be a good dude, but is so utterly lacking in normal relational skills that he's a right quim.

User avatar
Lawrence
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1485
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: Beta Canum Venaticorum
Has liked: 37 times
Been liked: 605 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by Lawrence »

kwhelan wrote:I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
Experienced this a few times... Worst was mixing a support band for Supergroove. The sound check went well and all smiles...then before the gig started their tech tool 18dB off the system gain at the Graphics. First song Im like WTF!. It wasn't a huge room so stage sound from amps was quite loud, but I struggled to get the vocals clean above the band. I found the problem but the Engineer was watching me and stopped me from fixing it...

Mixing at Western Springs with Knightshade I had a more subtle attempt...the main act stayed close to time at soundcheck, then the Aussies middle act did theirs....than the Singer insisted on walking around the stadium for 30 minutes while the band jammed ":to check the system sounded good". I ended top with the system shut off for pre gate security checks after 2 minutes of our check. Fortunately that one ended up sounding pretty good in the end!

On there other hand I had a band I played in do a debut gig at Mainstreet supporting The Flowers (IceHouse) back in 1980. Howard Page from Jands was their FOH guy and he gave us everything - it was a lesson in how to be a professional!
GrantB wrote:
“You might be cool, but you’ll never be playing a white Steinberger through a JC120, wearing a white jumpsuit with white shoes and sporting a mullet cool”.

User avatar
MogwaiBoy
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 2346
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:35 pm
Has liked: 157 times
Been liked: 242 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by MogwaiBoy »

I get that here's often a kind of gain-staging happening, like if you have a dance music event with a bunch of DJs and you want to slowly build up to the headliner without peaking too early, etc etc - but deliberate sabotage of an opening bands' sound is unethical in my opinion.

User avatar
smallface
PRS
PRS
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Back to Auckland. And yes, reality sucks
Has liked: 270 times
Been liked: 221 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by smallface »

Lawrence wrote:
kwhelan wrote:I always thought it was unfair when your watching even someone big ,but when they're doing the opening set for say an international act and they 're using the same desk PA etc as its all setup for the stadium but their sound is just at least half as good as the main act, its like the poor buggers are deliberately sabotaged so as not to overshadow the main act, they want those first few bars to just stand out and make everyone take notice that hey the main act is awesome and this is going to be good
happens every time and it really ruins the preshow for me
Experienced this a few times... Worst was mixing a support band for Supergroove. The sound check went well and all smiles...then before the gig started their tech tool 18dB off the system gain at the Graphics. First song Im like WTF!. It wasn't a huge room so stage sound from amps was quite loud, but I struggled to get the vocals clean above the band. I found the problem but the Engineer was watching me and stopped me from fixing it...

Mixing at Western Springs with Knightshade I had a more subtle attempt...the main act stayed close to time at soundcheck, then the Aussies middle act did theirs....than the Singer insisted on walking around the stadium for 30 minutes while the band jammed ":to check the system sounded good". I ended top with the system shut off for pre gate security checks after 2 minutes of our check. Fortunately that one ended up sounding pretty good in the end!

On there other hand I had a band I played in do a debut gig at Mainstreet supporting The Flowers (IceHouse) back in 1980. Howard Page from Jands was their FOH guy and he gave us everything - it was a lesson in how to be a professional!
Another sound guy who treated all bands with the same level of respect was Greg Carroll (RIP). Used to play at Mainstreet a lot eons ago and every time Greg mixed the bands he was totally focused on getting it right for every band.
I climbed on the back of a giant albatross which flew through a crack in the cloud to a place where happiness reigned all year round and music played ever so loudly

User avatar
StratMatt
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 5242
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:41 pm
Has liked: 557 times
Been liked: 621 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by StratMatt »

We had a really good gig with Michelle from The Rock Factory in Auckland looking after sound for us. Bloody grateful too because sound check sounded great but there was no sound when we kicked off. We wouldn't even have known where to start but she sorted it straight away.
Loving it so far

User avatar
Lawrence
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1485
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: Beta Canum Venaticorum
Has liked: 37 times
Been liked: 605 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by Lawrence »

YES! Greg was a true gentleman.
GrantB wrote:
“You might be cool, but you’ll never be playing a white Steinberger through a JC120, wearing a white jumpsuit with white shoes and sporting a mullet cool”.

User avatar
rickenbackerkid
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 6700
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:52 pm
Has liked: 206 times
Been liked: 651 times

Re: Band dynamics

Post by rickenbackerkid »

StratMatt wrote:We had a really good gig with Michelle from The Rock Factory in Auckland looking after sound for us. Bloody grateful too because sound check sounded great but there was no sound when we kicked off. We wouldn't even have known where to start but she sorted it straight away.
she's awesome.

Post Reply