Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

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Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by null_pointer »

Ok, my quest for a great swap with my Suhr isn't popping up anything higher than the 400 series Taylor, so thought I'd chuck this to the Massive: what recommends for swapping out/replacing the existing Fishman Prefix Plus system in my Taylor with something that better captures it's acoustic sound?
I'm pretty happy with the acoustic aspects of the guitar, slightly less volume and bottom end than my mates J45 (as would be expected with a cutaway vs a dread), but good all-rounder that feels great to play.
The Fishman is average at best in my opinion. Certainly not utter crap, but there's a reasonable amount of EQ fiddling to get things sounding good each time, and I still think the Piezo undersaddles aren't awesome. I bought a LR Baggs Venue DI to help with that, but I'd rather the base signal was better to start with.
Any recommends? Bearing in mind the Fishman is a barn door, I am expecting I'll just need to leave the preamp in and work around that? Or is it OK in itself, and a better pup system could be implemented?

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by SimonHirst »

I don't really have lots of experience with different acoustic pickups. I got a KK one in Dad's Lowden for him but I wasn't overly sold on it. Although it's a two-piece saddle so there are fewer options, but that was what was readily available at the time. Sounds ok, but is quite muddy to me. EQs up alright.
I've had Fishman infinity's in a Taylor I had years ago. I liked it in that so I put one in my Martin. It still sounds like a DI'd acoustic but I'd say it sounds pretty good within that. I had thought about getting a pickup with the piezo + mic w/ the blend function as I think you can get a really nice sound out of them, but they can also be problematic on loud stages etc, so I opted for simplicity and reliability, and then run that into a LR Baggs para DI which I like.
The Infinity seems to capture, even in it's DI'd sounding way, the general overall qualites of the Martin's sound, so as far as I'm concerned that's a 'win' overall.
I've no doubt there are better pickups around, but this one is doing just fine for me.

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by vintage52 »

I've only ever swapped out the Takamine CoolTube for the one that isn't a cooltube.

:)
Wellington

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by rickenbackerkid »

I'm a massive pickup slut, having had 5 systems installed in my Lowden. Quick run down:

Old Fishman UST - splatty, far too piezo-y, nothing like the guitar
LR Baggs M1a - quite a nice sound but nothing like the guitar (kept it)
JJB Electronics 330 - nice but needed lots of EQ, dynamics not quite right
K&K Pure Western - nice but needed lots of EQ, really pretty terrible into a normal DI, so I used a BBE Preamp.
LR Baggs Lyric - nice on it's own. With a bit of EQ, really outstanding. It's a mic, so it sounds like the guitar. Dynamics are just right. However you need to EQ a heavy chunk of mids out to compensate for the boxy tone of the mic being on the inside of the guitar. I have an LR Baggs Para DI, and I have a big chunk of midrange at about 1K dialed out, and that setting works sweet with all three of my Lyric -equipped guitars.

The downside to just a mic (like the Lyric) is that it doesn't have a big thunderous low end, which is pretty limiting to solo players who need some thump to fill out the sound. And the other downside is of course that a mic will run away into feedback far easier than a piezo.

So the ultimate system is really a system with a piezo UST and a mic and a blend so that you can go all the way mic (for recording or quiet gigs) or all the way UST for looping, solo shows, loud stages, or anywhere inbetween.
Allows you to be quite creative with your sound too - couple of times doing sound for Louis Baker, I've noticed him changing the blend to suit the song.

LR Baggs Anthem, Fishman Eclipse Matrix Blend, Seymour Duncan/dtar Wavelength duo are all mic/UST systems I've heard from behind the console as a sound engineer and I though they all sounded really, really good.

Fishman Prefix Pro Blend is a UST/Mic blending system with a side preamp, so that might be worth checking out too

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by null_pointer »

bbrunskill wrote:I'm a massive pickup slut, having had 5 systems installed in my Lowden. Quick run down:

Old Fishman UST - splatty, far too piezo-y, nothing like the guitar
LR Baggs M1a - quite a nice sound but nothing like the guitar (kept it)
JJB Electronics 330 - nice but needed lots of EQ, dynamics not quite right
K&K Pure Western - nice but needed lots of EQ, really pretty terrible into a normal DI, so I used a BBE Preamp.
LR Baggs Lyric - nice on it's own. With a bit of EQ, really outstanding. It's a mic, so it sounds like the guitar. Dynamics are just right. However you need to EQ a heavy chunk of mids out to compensate for the boxy tone of the mic being on the inside of the guitar. I have an LR Baggs Para DI, and I have a big chunk of midrange at about 1K dialed out, and that setting works sweet with all three of my Lyric -equipped guitars.

The downside to just a mic (like the Lyric) is that it doesn't have a big thunderous low end, which is pretty limiting to solo players who need some thump to fill out the sound. And the other downside is of course that a mic will run away into feedback far easier than a piezo.

So the ultimate system is really a system with a piezo UST and a mic and a blend so that you can go all the way mic (for recording or quiet gigs) or all the way UST for looping, solo shows, loud stages, or anywhere inbetween.
Allows you to be quite creative with your sound too - couple of times doing sound for Louis Baker, I've noticed him changing the blend to suit the song.

LR Baggs Anthem, Fishman Eclipse Matrix Blend, Seymour Duncan/dtar Wavelength duo are all mic/UST systems I've heard from behind the console as a sound engineer and I though they all sounded really, really good.

Fishman Prefix Pro Blend is a UST/Mic blending system with a side preamp, so that might be worth checking out too
Thanks for the feedback all, and cheers Ben that was pretty much what I was after in one post. Sounds like a blend fits the bill, and I'll do some reading on the Prefix Plus blend as that may be a potential drop in replacement as well?

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by olegmcnoleg »

+1 for the anthem.

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by H671 »

I have an Epiphone EL200CE and while it is a budget guitar, I feel that the pickup system is brilliant!
It uses an "eSonic2" hybrid system (made by Shadow Electronics fro Germany) consisting of an under saddle
piezo type with a magnetic pickup at the end of the fretboard.
You can blend the the two together - or not - and each pickup has it's own output jack which means
stereo magic! You can also run each output into a seperate amp and the magnetic pickup works well with effects
pedals including distortion if you desire. In short you can be as transparent or as creative as you want.

Here is a link:
http://www.epiphone.com/news-features/n ... ic-pe.aspx



Epiphone Riviera P93 & EJ200CE, Hagstrom Viking Bass, Doubleneck bass/guitar.
Rivera Clubster 45, Carvin AG100D, Ashton BSK158.

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by rickenbackerkid »

null_pointer wrote: Thanks for the feedback all, and cheers Ben that was pretty much what I was after in one post. Sounds like a blend fits the bill, and I'll do some reading on the Prefix Plus blend as that may be a potential drop in replacement as well?
I suspect it will be a drop in, or close to. Probably will be expensive, acoustic pickups are an easy way to spend money. I shudder when I think about my 3x Lyrics at $300ish each

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by null_pointer »

bbrunskill wrote:
null_pointer wrote: Thanks for the feedback all, and cheers Ben that was pretty much what I was after in one post. Sounds like a blend fits the bill, and I'll do some reading on the Prefix Plus blend as that may be a potential drop in replacement as well?
I suspect it will be a drop in, or close to. Probably will be expensive, acoustic pickups are an easy way to spend money. I shudder when I think about my 3x Lyrics at $300ish each
I hear ya, but when a suitable upgrade guitar-wise looks north of $3k a $400 pickup system seems pretty reasonable!

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by rickenbackerkid »

To be honest, I'm not sure there's a huge tonal difference between a 3/4 series taylor and a 8 series anyway. Pickup is far more bang for the buck

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by null_pointer »

So an Anthem SL running into my LR Baggs Venue DI should be all I need? No need for the full blown Anthem?

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by null_pointer »

I bought a J35 and never did this, but I'm back on the wagon of considering it...The J35 is a nice guitar, but brighter and less of a classic 'strummer' than the Taylor. Ben, Oleg, still stand by the Anthem as an option?

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by olegmcnoleg »

null_pointer wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:15 pm I bought a J35 and never did this, but I'm back on the wagon of considering it...The J35 is a nice guitar, but brighter and less of a classic 'strummer' than the Taylor. Ben, Oleg, still stand by the Anthem as an option?
Yes, I do. The Anthem is an easy project, and it sounds great.

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by rickenbackerkid »

Yep. Anthem is good. I'm keen to try the Seymour Duncan Wavelength Duo too

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Re: Replacing electrics in a Taylor 314CE (2002)

Post by Miza »

rickenbackerkid wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:12 pm I'm a massive pickup slut, having had 5 systems installed in my Lowden. Quick run down:

Old Fishman UST - splatty, far too piezo-y, nothing like the guitar
LR Baggs M1a - quite a nice sound but nothing like the guitar (kept it)
JJB Electronics 330 - nice but needed lots of EQ, dynamics not quite right
K&K Pure Western - nice but needed lots of EQ, really pretty terrible into a normal DI, so I used a BBE Preamp.
LR Baggs Lyric - nice on it's own. With a bit of EQ, really outstanding. It's a mic, so it sounds like the guitar. Dynamics are just right. However you need to EQ a heavy chunk of mids out to compensate for the boxy tone of the mic being on the inside of the guitar. I have an LR Baggs Para DI, and I have a big chunk of midrange at about 1K dialed out, and that setting works sweet with all three of my Lyric -equipped guitars.

The downside to just a mic (like the Lyric) is that it doesn't have a big thunderous low end, which is pretty limiting to solo players who need some thump to fill out the sound. And the other downside is of course that a mic will run away into feedback far easier than a piezo.

So the ultimate system is really a system with a piezo UST and a mic and a blend so that you can go all the way mic (for recording or quiet gigs) or all the way UST for looping, solo shows, loud stages, or anywhere inbetween.
Allows you to be quite creative with your sound too - couple of times doing sound for Louis Baker, I've noticed him changing the blend to suit the song.

LR Baggs Anthem, Fishman Eclipse Matrix Blend, Seymour Duncan/dtar Wavelength duo are all mic/UST systems I've heard from behind the console as a sound engineer and I though they all sounded really, really good.

Fishman Prefix Pro Blend is a UST/Mic blending system with a side preamp, so that might be worth checking out too
Similar experience. I installed a LR Baggs M1A in my '78 Maton, hoping to improve on the UST that's in there now. It sounded a bit more natural, but a little spiky in the treble, and lacked a bit of oomph. Needed lots of EQing in the preamp to sound good. Also, you need to be careful not to hit the M1A with your pick! Very noisy if you do.

I had the intention of installing a TRRS* jack in the guitar and using a TRS/stereo cable so I could blend the two pickups with my Radial PZ Pre, but like you I never got round to it. The jack for the M1A is still sitting loose inside the body of the guitar! :oops: The PZ Pre has two inputs with independent volumes, and input 1 takes a TRS cable.

*Apparently most acoustic output jacks are TRS (the 'R' is the battery switch) so in order to blend two output signals you need the extra lug from the TRRS. Something to bear in mind if you can't find a system that blends on the guitar itself.


Sounds like an acoustic Tronfest might be in order?
Nothing to see here.

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