Making any guitar playable.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:40 am

I guess we've all played guitars (and basses) which we considered to be unplayable. I have toyed with the action etc on some of these and made them useable. Most of us have swapped out electrics and made a difference there too. I've even re-shaped a neck profile to suit.

My question for this thread: is it possible to make a decent player out of any electric guitar?

I don't mean making a Gibbo out of a Samick - I mean just a good, easy player with a decent sound. Something YOU could gig with if your other axes were unavailable for any reason.

Tsuken · Post by **Tsuken** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:46 am

Well, my stickerstrat thing is not too bad, and it began life as pretty dodgy. Bung in a good pickup (seymour duncan hot rails), and change the neck, and get it set up properly ... end result: pretty decent. Not fast and slinky to play like my Ibanez, but aprt from anything else it's got a hideous old strat-style neck join that stops you playing properly abover the 19th fret

(the 10-52 strings and wound G might also have something to do with it...)

Anyway, if I got a fret dress on it it would be even better. So if that can be made decent, I think most anything could be.

Yes I swapped the bridge too - but it was the bridge from my Samick, so that hardly counts. I swapped the neck, but the neck that went on was from a Rockson, so hardly top-quality (or dinero).

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:12 am

> so hardly top-quality (or dinero).

But playable....

ash · Post by **ash** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:06 am

Theoretically, it is possible but often impractical. The critical feature is the neck, or more specifically the true alignment of the neck. A very small amout of bend or twist in the wrong direction is nearly undetectable to the untrained eye, but can cause a multitude of problems.

The physical difference between a crap and a brilliant guitar is macroscopically very little, but its the microscopic differences that count the most, and sometimes the price tag doesn't reflect that. That is to say, a cheap guitar can play brilliantly, and an expensive one can play.... craply

Often a fret overhaul can correct the problem, but sometimes more drastic action like pulling the frets and levelling the fretboard, or rigging the neck up under extreme load and heat is required. Unfortunately $300 worth of drastic action isn't really warranted on a $200 guitar...

B45-12 · Post by **B45-12** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:31 am

Well that's what we did with the Ibanez's etc Rog back in the 70's. But besides the problem Ash mentions, there is also the pickup quality - a Hofner pup for example is remarkably trebly- and some seem prone to pick up everything going. Probably because they were expected to work with about 25watt amps at most.

Personaly I think the Samick's of today are a lot better than even the midrange stuff of yesteryear simply because the game has got so crowded so standards are raised. Once you get to the 60's jap guitars you really are mostly into the crappy end in terms of build quality, pretty veneers hiding a multitude of sins and little or no adjustment of things like intonation or neck profile (the pre 70's early jap trussrods I've come across had one thing in common - they simply didn't work but they looked the part).

Changing tack for a moment I tell you where I think the real bargains are at the moment and that is in the mid to bottom end accoustics - from Epiphones through to Cort they have tones and playability that one would have died for back in the 'good olt days ja!!' What more they are in tune past the 3rd fret!! For $6-700 you can buy a new dreadnaught or jumbo guitar that will last, be playable and sound good for the rest of your career!

And if you want my pick for a good cheap strat that aint a strat, either the Chinese Fenders at $299 or the Epiphone version (usually about $180 second hand) would be good. With the money you save you could get a really good purple paint job done on them amigo!

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:10 am

Yes, I agree. (craply??? LOL)

Fiscally not necessarily desirable, but as a project its fun.

Remember too that those used to 'nice' guitars are always going to be more fussy than those to whom a guitar is just a guitar.

Personally, any guitar with highish action is unplayable to me, whereas other just love it like that. Its individual taste.

Ben - I used to play a Hofner Strat copy with a white leatherette finish - remember them? Circa 1962. I also had a '63 Hofner bass (Beatle bass) - it was far and away THE worst bass I've ever owned, which is saying something, as I've owned Jansen, Gibson, Fender, Diplomat, Ibanez, Yamaha, Rickenbacker, Vox, Musicman and a few others I can't remember. Most people say Gibson makes the worst basses, but that Hofner ...bllleeerrrccchhh! Now that was a perfect example of quite playable, but possessing inherent dreadful tone. Quite unfixable in the '60s, as you may recall - we didn't have boutique pups, EQ pedals etc...

ash · Post by **ash** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:50 am

Things like pickups are sort of a different story in some ways. Its a bit like picking up a different microphone to sing through.

There comes a point where the guitar is like Grandad's Axe... Its had two new necks, a new body and EMG pickups, but its still a 1962 Haagstrom!

Or the ones where the pickups are upgraded, the neck is replaced or refurbished, but the body is still packing case ply... When you polish a turd, the best you can expect is a shiny turd

In that situation looks, feel and playability can be dealt with, but sound may never be much better... or maybe its just fine as it is.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:52 am

Ash, wasn't EC's Blackie like that?

Tsuken · Post by **Tsuken** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:08 am

ash wrote:Or the ones where the pickups are upgraded, the neck is replaced or refurbished, but the body is still packing case ply... When you polish a turd, the best you can expect is a shiny turd
In that situation looks, feel and playability can be dealt with, but sound may never be much better... or maybe its just fine as it is.

hmmm - sounds like my stickerstrat

I like what you said to me though: "you can make anything sound ok with enough power"

- hence the Hot Rails.

...and it does sound good, I reckon.

ash · Post by **ash** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:10 am

Grandad's Axe, or a shiny turd?

I think you mean the axe thing...

It was made of the best bits from 6 battered strats he bought on a whim in the US while touring.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:11 am

LOL - Brownie was the shiny turd...

B45-12 · Post by **B45-12** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 12:15 am

What gets to me, Rog, is the Hofner 'beatle basses' and their current price tags. I recall one in Christchurch that sat in the window for years at $30-00 either in Hulstons auction rooms or the big music shop up by the pub in Colombo Street.

I've often wondered if these Hofner basses were not simply the German copy of the original Gibson 50's EB0 (the one with the violin body before they changed it to SG shape) - do you know??.

The only time I ever really lusted after a bass guitar was the Maton baroque bass - that seemed to have the tone and playbility for me but sadly I never scored one when they were available and, like the Hofners, they are now 'collectible' meaning a) it's rooted b) you will pay the earth.

My ealiest solid electric (about 65-67) was no name plywood LP shaped job with no truss rod, a neck like a bit of 2 x 4 and a single 'plato' brand pickup on a brushed aluminium scratchplate. It actually did not sound too bad through a converted valve radio although it (the radio) gave you a mild electric shock every now and again.

I traded it in on a 50's Maton full body (think it was a starfire or royale) jazzer (added pups) which I wish I'd kept along with a Maton Fyrbird which I had briefly in late 60's early 70's. Then there was the Commodore electric 12 string etc. etc.

By 70 I had an SG special and a year or two later the strat which I still have but it was fun eh?

Polar Bear · Post by **Polar Bear** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:42 am

MAte, it sure sounds like us young'uns have missed out on some of the good stuff.

It's bloody near on $500 these days for a cheapie knockoff SG Junior with one pickup from the 70s

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:03 am

PB, its probably why us old farts don't like spending money on gear. My Hofner bass cost $15 with case, my P bass cost $300 brand new with case, A Strat (they were all MIA then) cost less than $300 my first amp, Dynacord (Bulgarian or something, I think) was 5 pounds ($10).

I think in some corner of our minds, we still think in those terms.

raz · Post by **raz** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:59 pm

Hey Ash

Whatcha got against old Hagstroms? Some of them are damn fine... Actually I'm sitting here setting up a 67 Hag II which would have to have the thinnest neck I've ever seen.

Cheers
raz