yeah i think i have seen one of those guitars with built in speakers.. hahahah
i guess it's true that tokai offers an alternative to the original, and that works well for those who dont want to be ripped off by buying the original at outrageous prices. And if the quality and tone etc is there.. why not.. seems like a great deal..
the thing is that tokai is now getting sued, and that's unfortunate..
funny how Gibson weren't suing Tokai until they signed up a US dealer.... which sort of suggests that perhaps they can't make the worldwide patent stick - worldwide in the US perhaps
So, is that low alcohol or no alcohol at all? mmmm, no alcohol, do you want to try it? Noooooooooo.
Champers wrote:
AYP- i could be wrong but i think tokai use the name talbo to make their original instruments. talbo have some quite interesting stuff including all metal bodies and guitars with built in 5W amps! doesnt really appeal to me but i think they do ok in japan and some asian countries
Oh so! having stayed in Japanese homes with rice paper partitions I can understand the 5 Watt thing! much more would literally blow the doors (and walls) down!!! Oriental gentreman very crever!! Dozo.
We can forgive the child who is afraid of the dark, we cannot forgive the adult who is afraid of the light!
listen up girls!!!!!!! if somebody says jump do you all have to?.....I have been inside many epi LPs and have on my work bench as I write another Epi LP std which most definitely has a 99% solid wood top with only the flame finish being a thin veneer.if you read 'all 'of the above mentioned epi forum you will see that there is a good chance that the guitar is a fake and that even the dealer seems to have been dodgy....the timbers used on guitars in that price range[$800-2000] will not be the high priced stock as used by the US makers,for obvious reasons[honduran mahogany is not cheap and its about to be put on the endangered species list]however it is still timber and will sound okay just with a different tonal signature ......tokai versus Epiphone ,there is very little difference..the Tokai's of 20 years ago ,were japanese made ,of high quality materials .today they are korean and made almost exactly the same as epi's,just to add, the most respected guitar mag "Guitarist"UK had a shootout between the two and chose the 'epi'above the tokai ,but only just...... ok I'd better go.....cheers AZ
So let me get this right - you are going to take a guitar which is amplified using 1940's radio technology or 1980's transistor, deliberately distorted in the vast majority of cases in the same was as the 1940's technology, record it and let the punters play it back through $5-00 speakers in a car or radio which will add it's own whack of coloration.
Umm remind me why exactlyare you worrying about the tonal qualities of the wood so much??????
that's a horribly correct point, damn you and your perceptiveness.
Anyway, that's a good point, but stil for hose that play at home and genuinely find the quest for tone important (and perhaps cock status) then wood matters. Mine is solid magonany and I get pissy when people claim it's Basswood, not that speakers would tell the difference...
Polar Bear wrote: that's a horribly correct point, damn you and your perceptiveness.
Anyway, that's a good point, but stil for hose that play at home and genuinely find the quest for tone important (and perhaps dong status) then wood matters. Mine is solid magonany and I get pissy when people claim it's Basswood, not that speakers would tell the difference...
Polar Bear wrote: Mine is solid magonany and I get pissy when people claim it's Basswood...
Ah, but is it really magonany... or mahogany for that matter
99% of guitars reputed to be made of mahogany these days are in fact NOT mahogany at all, but one of the many mahogany substitutes like Khaya, Nato or Sapele. Hell, even Kauri has been marketed as "Commercial Mahogany" in the past!
Exotic timber merchants and guitar factories must all be liars, conmen or idiots if they believe or expect us to believe half the barefaced lies they spout about mahogany and rosewood.... Sadly most people do believe them if they care at all...
(As you can tell I get quite pissy about it too! )
Hey Ash since you've joined in and have built some instruments - give us your opinion on how much the wood matters over good construction methods etc. What I mean is, providing you have a reasonable tonewood (Kauri, nato, maogany, Walnut etc. BUT not say Balsa) and really good tight joints/good hardware are you going to get pretty much of a good sound with just small amounts of difference between the various species or will the wood still make a huge amount of differnce to the sound.
The reason I ask is we have some lovely native wood here (Kauri etc) just as the Aussies do, and you may get better value nowdays by using an indigenous wood plus a good local builder to copy what you want. For example you pay up to $5k's for a LP and it may be if you fork out $3-4k's and using NZ woods, a local guy can make you the equivalent of a commercial $8k plus instrument.
The issue of wood is a vexing one. It makes a big difference, but its hard to quantify. The term "tonewood" bugs me a little as it is really marketing-speak for "the woods we have always used, and you are used to hearing"
Even Pinus Radiata will make a nice guitar, but you might not be used to the sound it makes and not like it. Plus, no one will go within a mile of a gat made of what they perceive as shitty old firewood...
It IS entirely viable to use native NZ and Aussie woods, and infact they are some of the very best when well selected. For example some of my nicest peices are super hard heart Rimu from an old bed, but the ordinary Rimu from the same bed was dead sounding and weak.
The trick to using non-traditional woods is to match them to each other and to the pickups in particular. You just need to make combinations that compliment each other. Just like mahogany/maple/humbuckers compliment each other.
The analogy I use for the effect of the wood is to compare say Mick Jagger and Robert Plant singing. Whether they're both singing through the same quality gear or different gear or crap gear (microphone = pickup - Desk/PA = Amp), you still know which is Mick and which is Robert. And the character of the wood you use still forms the foundation and still comes through to varying extents regardless of what you bolt to it.
As to the idea of making a LP equivalent of local wood, it wouldn't really be the same. It might be way better, but not exactly the same. Some are comparable, like Kauri and Lacewood have similar response to Alder and Kahikatea is similar to Basswood, but then even some kauri is way different to other Kauri... Vexing indeed.
B45-12 wrote:
For example you pay up to $5k's for a LP and it may be if you fork out $3-4k's and using NZ woods, a local guy can make you the equivalent of a commercial $8k plus instrument.
Let me give you a breakdown of a Gibson's price:
Gibson name $1000
Customshop name $1000
Careful wood selection $1000 (hasn't always been a feature of the Gibson product, but is now...)
Wood $200 (nothing special, but well selected)
Quality hardware $600 (also better in recent times)
Gibson pickups $100 (they're not that flash, but they cost us alot more than that!)
Fretwork $300
Quality inspections and setup $500
etc......
As you can see, you can save a fair wad by forgoing the Gibson Customshop branding. Careful wood selection is the real advantage over Tokai and the like. Hardware is another advantage that is easily rectified on any guitar. The advantage (or curse) of custom built instruments is that you get infinite choices and can choose all of the advantages and none of the fluff if you desire.
Thanks Ash for that rundown - interesting as I'd been sort of contemplating sometime in the future getting an NZ guitar as opposed to an overseas one - just want to play publicly something good from where I call home as opposed to USA, Japan or the UK.
that's a horribly correct point, damn you and your perceptiveness.
