Am I insane?

...and stuff

Moderator: Capt. Black

B45-12
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1585
meble-kuchenne.warszawa.pl
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:56 am

Post by B45-12 »

Sicklehut wrote:You are insane dude ...

I know none of those chords you have there :)
Nonsense - all persons like you know every Am7b5sus13 going!
You can't do THAT on stage!

User avatar
Rog
The Self-Proclaimed Voice of Reason
Posts: 9258
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:30 pm
Location: Under de mountain
Has liked: 7 times
Been liked: 57 times

Post by Rog »

B45 - having played at country music clubs, I sure as hell know what you infer with the semitone steps. Why do those people think its cool/interesting to do the semitone key changes in EVERY smegging song??
He hit a chord that rocked the spinet and disappeared into the infinite ...

User avatar
Tsuken
In the Name of Vai
Posts: 2328
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by Tsuken »

DarcyPerry wrote:Nice changes. Had a Vai vibe to it and I like that a lot.

Some smooth speedy work later on too :twisted:

Maybe add a break down?
Thanks man.

The structure will be somewhat different to that, in the end. The solo will stay at that point, but be shorter, and more structured/worked out - and less technically silly. After that I have a bit more writing to do, so we'll see where that takes me.
My twitting tweets of twitterness

@ash lol/RT "@ChelseaVPeretti Had fun in the Cinema Tent tonight w @adultswim @robcorddry #bonnaroo #fonz #hottubtimemachineintonationjokes #childrenshospital #mud #pee" //by @Jenesis

Here be bloggins

User avatar
Tsuken
In the Name of Vai
Posts: 2328
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Am I insane?

Post by Tsuken »

B45-12 wrote:Now Tsuken - you of all people should know the insane think they are entirely rational. Therefore if you think it's insane, then it must be sane since it would be vice vera if you were truly insane. At leat I think that's the rationale.
Kind of like Catch 22: must be insane to discharge from the army, but must request it - and if you do you're clearly not insnae ;)
The other thought is essentailly to see it as a modulation of I (Eflat), V (Bflat) and IV (Ab) with a sidestep into E to create a bit of interest rather then the same old I, V, IV progression. Harmony rules (don't ee go urp a bloody semitone eh lad!) are only guidelines and can be broken with taste and discretion (or pig ignorance in Country and Western).

If yopu want some extra fun, substitute a IIm7 for the IV (ie Fm7).
And that's a very interesting thought. I had noticed that they were the IV and V, but hadn't thought quite like that. Cheers for making it explicit 8)
My twitting tweets of twitterness

@ash lol/RT "@ChelseaVPeretti Had fun in the Cinema Tent tonight w @adultswim @robcorddry #bonnaroo #fonz #hottubtimemachineintonationjokes #childrenshospital #mud #pee" //by @Jenesis

Here be bloggins

B45-12
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1585
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:56 am

Post by B45-12 »

Rog wrote:B45 - having played at country music clubs, I sure as hell know what you infer with the semitone steps. Why do those people think its cool/interesting to do the semitone key changes in EVERY smegging song??
Waaal pardner when you is alone on that there big ol prarie wid nuttin but earth and sky, you surely don't have much else to do - apart from amorous interludes wid yo hoss of course!!! Like the song says!

'In the old movies as a matter of course
You often see cowboys alone on a hoss
Alone on a hoss wid no women in sight
makes you sure wonder what cowboys get up to at night!'
You can't do THAT on stage!

User avatar
Clarky
Fender
Fender
Posts: 565
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: Rangiora
Has liked: 9 times
Been liked: 2 times

Post by Clarky »

Rock it out and just play power chords? :wink:

User avatar
sambrowne
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1911
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: Auckland

Post by sambrowne »

Bum each other in tents, then spend a lifetime wishing that society would allow them to be true to themselves?...

User avatar
DarcyPerry
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:04 pm
Location: Waikato

Post by DarcyPerry »

sambrowne wrote:Bum each other in tents, then spend a lifetime wishing that society would allow them to be true to themselves?...
No, that's only in the movies. Real cowboys don't use tents. :lol:
"It's all a gift... and I have to keep giving it back, or it goes away. If I start believing that it's all my doing, it's gonna be my undoing." - Stevie Ray Vaughan
http://www.darcyperry.co.nz

User avatar
sgt mukuzi
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1929
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:50 pm

Re: Am I insane?

Post by sgt mukuzi »

Tsuken wrote:
Ebmaj9 | Gmin7 | F13 | Eb13 | Bbmaj9 | Dmin7 | C13 | Bb13 |
Emaj9 | G#min7 | F#13 | E13 | Abmaj9 | Cmin7 | Bb13 | C13
First three chords are in Bb major if we are thinking in Lydian terms and I am
I would like to see what voicing your using for the Eb13, I read a thirteen chord as dominant, the 13 would need the 7th so the Db changes key from Bb to ______ then were back to Bb major with the three minor chord being D minor. The Db is a roving Neapolitan
ohhh baby
Then we have two dominant chords in the shape of C7 and Bb7
Again I will need the voicing to work these out; looking directly at them I see a roving dominant sonority.
E major awaits after the B13, so we have a G leading to E major also a Bb moving to Ab to accommodate the E major chord.
G#minor still in E, F#13 dominant in E if were still thinking Lydian
E13, again I need the voicing as 13 = dominant, have we changed to D major?
No, were in Ab major, still thinking Lydian our C Minor and Bb13 fit in.
The dominant C chord I will need to see the voicing.

Guessing I would say the sonority set up by the roving Neapolitan lets the ear hear the changes
If the thirteen chords lack a seven then were looking at stacked fourths
If the dominant is voiced 7, 3, 13 then we need to relable the dominant chord to the tritone
Giving us a #9
If we have a sharp nine dominant then we can see the accidentals
:)

User avatar
Bg
Site Admin
Posts: 43187
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:13 am
Location: Auckland
Has liked: 2254 times
Been liked: 3873 times

Post by Bg »

erm... that translates to me as

"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Nam quam. Vivamus adipiscing elit. Fusce ullamcorper mauris in velit. Nunc pede. Praesent tincidunt. Donec lacinia, lacus eu volutpat vestibulum, urna nisi consectetuer libero, a interdum odio orci eleifend diam. Phasellus gravida, nisi eu tempor venenatis, nibh libero euismod enim, id suscipit urna tellus eu risus. Sed sagittis nisi ac orci. Proin pharetra neque non diam. Nam interdum sapien quis turpis. Morbi sed nibh. Pellentesque rutrum erat. Fusce mollis arcu mattis nisi. Mauris quis ante eget sapien scelerisque condimentum. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos hymenaeos. Nunc accumsan risus.

Vivamus odio nisl, aliquet eget, fermentum vitae, commodo vel, velit. In posuere mauris eu nisi. Integer euismod nonummy neque. Curabitur venenatis nonummy eros. Vivamus fermentum. Nullam augue tellus, euismod id, consequat in, sollicitudin ut, elit. Ut rutrum, nisl sed condimentum suscipit, lorem pede cursus felis, et facilisis massa tortor tristique orci. Praesent sit amet purus. Suspendisse ut neque. Duis turpis felis, rhoncus at, luctus id, posuere sit amet, est. "
So, is that low alcohol or no alcohol at all? mmmm, no alcohol, do you want to try it? Noooooooooo.

User avatar
sgt mukuzi
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1929
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:50 pm

Post by sgt mukuzi »

in lydian the V is 2.
tritone #9 is dominant 13.
stacked four is a chord without a home
un-keyable if you like
no third, no chord, no key,
function yes
home no

User avatar
Tsuken
In the Name of Vai
Posts: 2328
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Am I insane?

Post by Tsuken »

sgt mukuzi wrote:
Tsuken wrote:
Ebmaj9 | Gmin7 | F13 | Eb13 | Bbmaj9 | Dmin7 | C13 | Bb13 |
Emaj9 | G#min7 | F#13 | E13 | Abmaj9 | Cmin7 | Bb13 | C13
First three chords are in Bb major if we are thinking in Lydian terms and I am
I would like to see what voicing your using for the Eb13, I read a thirteen chord as dominant, the 13 would need the 7th so the Db changes key from Bb to ______ then were back to Bb major with the three minor chord being D minor. The Db is a roving Neapolitan
ohhh baby
Then we have two dominant chords in the shape of C7 and Bb7
Again I will need the voicing to work these out; looking directly at them I see a roving dominant sonority.
E major awaits after the B13, so we have a G leading to E major also a Bb moving to Ab to accommodate the E major chord.
G#minor still in E, F#13 dominant in E if were still thinking Lydian
E13, again I need the voicing as 13 = dominant, have we changed to D major?
No, were in Ab major, still thinking Lydian our C Minor and Bb13 fit in.
The dominant C chord I will need to see the voicing.

Guessing I would say the sonority set up by the roving Neapolitan lets the ear hear the changes
If the thirteen chords lack a seven then were looking at stacked fourths
If the dominant is voiced 7, 3, 13 then we need to relable the dominant chord to the tritone
Giving us a #9
If we have a sharp nine dominant then we can see the accidentals
:)
A 13th chord is dominant; nothing to do with how you or anyone else want to see it. It implies the presence of the maj3rd, min7th, maj 9th, and 11th as well as the 13th. If you want anything different, you need to specify it, and it's not "a 13th".

It's actually not all that complex a progression; just a bit strange. ;) It's the same prgression (I vi II(dom) I (dom) ) in 4 different keys - which I think is much easier to understand than looking at it as one big progression. It begins in Ebmaj, goes to Bbmaj, then to Emaj (the completely insane bit ;) ), then Ab maj (moderately weird).

If I recall correctly, one of the chords I labelled 13ths is actually not a 13th - but is dominant, so functionally it's the same (though I can't recall the actual voicings I played).

What I actually find interesting is how a key change that really oughtn't to work, can.
My twitting tweets of twitterness

@ash lol/RT "@ChelseaVPeretti Had fun in the Cinema Tent tonight w @adultswim @robcorddry #bonnaroo #fonz #hottubtimemachineintonationjokes #childrenshospital #mud #pee" //by @Jenesis

Here be bloggins

User avatar
sgt mukuzi
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1929
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:50 pm

Post by sgt mukuzi »

i`m with you Tsuken

i did mean the 13 as dominant, i agree about the third and seventh etc

the Bb key to E key change, because of the tritone its posible as a guess to asume it could be a tritone sub of the 13 chord
ie a sharp nine
thats all i was getting at

but i`m guessing anyway because i dont have any true idea about the voicings
peace bro
thanks for the thread.

User avatar
Rog
The Self-Proclaimed Voice of Reason
Posts: 9258
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:30 pm
Location: Under de mountain
Has liked: 7 times
Been liked: 57 times

Post by Rog »

Anything other than I-IV-V is just skiting!
7th should only be used in strict moderation, 9th almost never and 13th only when threatened with death....
He hit a chord that rocked the spinet and disappeared into the infinite ...

User avatar
sgt mukuzi
Vintage Post Junkie
Vintage Post Junkie
Posts: 1929
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:50 pm

Post by sgt mukuzi »

Rog wrote:Anything other than I-IV-V is just skiting!
7th should only be used in strict moderation, 9th almost never and 13th only when threatened with death....

Your right Rog as always
Chords can only move up a forth or up a semitone other wise were just transposing or moving to a different voicing of the "one" chord


My analysis was tongue in cheek but the basis for a discussion is still there

Post Reply