My 2nd song Ive ever written

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rocklander
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by rocklander »

novels and songs are not the same though sam.. as I said, I can't write music to save myself, but sense is by no means a requirement for a 'successful' (good/bad/otherwise) song.
Shakedown 1979, cool kids never have the time
On a live wire right up off the street
You and I should meet
Junebug skipping like a stone
With the headlights pointed at the dawn
We were sure we'd never see an end to it all
And I don't even care to shake these zipper blues
And we don't know
Just where our bones will rest
To dust I guess
Forgotten and absorbed into the earth below
It's a god-awful small affair
To the girl with the mousy hair
But her mummy is yelling "No"
And her daddy has told her to go
But her friend is nowhere to be seen
Now she walks
through her sunken dream
To the seat with the clearest view
And she's hooked to the silver screen
But the film is a saddening bore
For she's lived it
ten times or more
She could spit in the eyes of fools
As they ask her to focus on
Sailors fighting in the dance hall
Oh man!
Look at those cavemen go
It's the freakiest show
Take a look at the Lawman
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show
Is there life on Mars?
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by sambrowne »

rocklander wrote:novels and songs are not the same though sam.. as I said, I can't write music to save myself, but sense is by no means a requirement for a 'successful' (good/bad/otherwise) song.
Shakedown 1979, cool kids never have the time
On a live wire right up off the street
You and I should meet
Junebug skipping like a stone
With the headlights pointed at the dawn
We were sure we'd never see an end to it all
And I don't even care to shake these zipper blues
And we don't know
Just where our bones will rest
To dust I guess
Forgotten and absorbed into the earth below
It's a god-awful small affair
To the girl with the mousy hair
But her mummy is yelling "No"
And her daddy has told her to go
But her friend is nowhere to be seen
Now she walks
through her sunken dream
To the seat with the clearest view
And she's hooked to the silver screen
But the film is a saddening bore
For she's lived it
ten times or more
She could spit in the eyes of fools
As they ask her to focus on
Sailors fighting in the dance hall
Oh man!
Look at those cavemen go
It's the freakiest show
Take a look at the Lawman
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show
Is there life on Mars?
Good examples of the 1 out of 10. Certainly there are lots of times when the lyrics don't come together to form a conventional narrative, but in both these cases, the lyrics are painting a picture for the listener, rather than just a string of random thoughts.

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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by Vince »

sambrowne wrote:
rocklander wrote:novels and songs are not the same though sam.. as I said, I can't write music to save myself, but sense is by no means a requirement for a 'successful' (good/bad/otherwise) song.
Good examples of the 1 out of 10. Certainly there are lots of times when the lyrics don't come together to form a conventional narrative, but in both these cases, the lyrics are painting a picture for the listener, rather than just a string of random thoughts.
OK... DYLAN.

Now, a lot of his famous, 60s stuff DOES sound like it's a bunch of random thoughts (I'm thinking of stuff like "Desolation Row" or "Subterranean Homesick Blues") but the apparently random thoughts are very evocative and the images they call up (in my mind at least) seem to make sense. At least while the music is playing. :)
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by sambrowne »

For sure. I totally agree - both of Ivan's examples work in that context.

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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by rocklander »

sambrowne wrote:For sure. I totally agree - both of Ivan's examples work in that context.
yup, and to be fair to you sam, the OP does not. as you (and others have stated) it's al lil too literal to do that. it's kinda telling a blow by blow (if you'll excuse the pun) story, rather than setting a scene. I was just really highlighting that in the context of writing a song, sense is not necessary in certain situations, like, when it's .. well.. . not.. heh.
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

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rocklander wrote:
sambrowne wrote:For sure. I totally agree - both of Ivan's examples work in that context.
yup, and to be fair to you sam, the OP does not. as you (and others have stated) it's al lil too literal to do that. it's kinda telling a blow by blow (if you'll excuse the pun) story, rather than setting a scene. I was just really highlighting that in the context of writing a song, sense is not necessary in certain situations, like, when it's .. well.. . not.. heh.
You're right, my statement was a sweeping generalisation. I've been thinking about this this morning and the fact is, that's perhaps part of what makes music so great - it's fairly difficult to apply a rule that applies to every single song, because every time you do, an example that flies in the face of that comes along and proves you wrong. I mean, think how many "rules" of songwriting Bohemian Rhapsody breaks. Pretty much all of them I'd say. And it was #1 for some ridiculous amount of time.

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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by Vince »

Back briefly to the lyrics of "Life on Mars". I always thought that the title comes from the girl wondering if there's life on Mars 'cause there's certainly no life where she is?
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

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Vince wrote:Back briefly to the lyrics of "Life on Mars". I always thought that the title comes from the girl wondering if there's life on Mars 'cause there's certainly no life where she is?
Maybe it's a question of intelligent life as opposed to those cavemen beating each other senseless?

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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by sambrowne »

If so I'd bet he left the word intelligent out of the chorus because it just didn't fit! Your meaning makes perfect sense there I reckon.

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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by willow13 »

sambrowne wrote: You mean sense, right?...Yes I did :oops:

A work of fiction doesn't need to make sense? When's the last time you read a novel that made no sense? I never mentioned novels, but of course a novel needs to make sense for the most part . You don't have to spell it out but the listener should experience something as a result of hearing the song, yes but someone may write something that has a very deep meaning to them,but it could be completely and utterly missed by most listeners because the meaning is only obvious to the writer......so should the writer change it so people can "get it"???

Songwriting is a musical skill, as is lyric writing. agreed, but there are no right or wrong ways of doing either This is why most of us can name way more Clapton or Led Zeppelin songs than Yngwie or Paul Gilbert songs I think you'll find that has more to do with the fact that clapton and zep have mainstream radio airplay thus exposure.......and I for one couldn't name you many clapton or zep songs

The songs that you really care about, that spark an emotional response in your brain, are not about tone or virtuosity. They're about a combination of a whole bunch of things - melody, harmony, emotion, rhythm, musicianship, structure, and most certainly lyrics. While there are some situations where lyrics play a minor role in the song, 9 out of 10 times the lyrics are a major part of the song's impact. totally agree with you there
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by Vince »

willow13 wrote:
sambrowne wrote:This is why most of us can name way more Clapton or Led Zeppelin songs than Yngwie or Paul Gilbert songs I think you'll find that has more to do with the fact that clapton and zep have mainstream radio airplay thus exposure.......and I for one couldn't name you many clapton or zep songs
Uhm... bit of a sticky wicket there. So why do Led Zep and Clapton get more radio exposure than Yngwie or Paul Gilbert?

Could it be because "Wonderful Tonight" and "Layla" have more appeal than songs like "I Am a Viking" and "Soldier Without Faith"?

I wonder...
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by rocklander »

Vince wrote:Back briefly to the lyrics of "Life on Mars". I always thought that the title comes from the girl wondering if there's life on Mars 'cause there's certainly no life where she is?
I remember hearing that each line was written down, then pulled out of a hat. very very very likely urban myth, but I like it all the same :D
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

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willow13 wrote:
sambrowne wrote: You mean sense, right?...Yes I did :oops:

A work of fiction doesn't need to make sense? When's the last time you read a novel that made no sense? I never mentioned novels, but of course a novel needs to make sense for the most part. Both are works of fiction. Both need to make sense, though as we've now discussed, "making sense" can mean a lot of things. I think "has a particular intended meaning that is appreciable by both the author and the people experiencing his/her work" probably covers it. It can't just be a bunch of whatever, to fill in space.

You don't have to spell it out but the listener should experience something as a result of hearing the song, yes but someone may write something that has a very deep meaning to them,but it could be completely and utterly missed by most listeners because the meaning is only obvious to the writer......so should the writer change it so people can "get it"??? Absolutely, yes. If it only "has meaning for them", it has no real meaning. It is not a valid piece of art, it is something else. If there is no appreciable value for anyone but the creator, there is essentially no value to the work at all.

Songwriting is a musical skill, as is lyric writing. agreed, but there are no right or wrong ways of doing either This is why most of us can name way more Clapton or Led Zeppelin songs than Yngwie or Paul Gilbert songs I think you'll find that has more to do with the fact that clapton and zep have mainstream radio airplay thus exposure.......and I for one couldn't name you many clapton or zep songs Let's be clear here - commercial radio's goal is to make money. They do that by playing the music that people (that is, musicians and for the most part non-musicians) want to hear. They don't care what works - if people want to hear it, they'll play it, and advertisers will continue to fill their coffers based on the size of their listenership. Simple. Good songs work, bad songs don't. To use a 2009 example, look at the likes of The Gossip and MGMT - both very indie acts that have garnered widespread mainstream support because of the strength of the songs. The idea that commercial radio only plays dull shit that sells is true for some stuff (such as American Idol winners or pop princess sex kitten "music" that appeals based on the demographic wanting to sleep with/have the life of the performer) but for much of the other music, it's based on strong songwriting.

The songs that you really care about, that spark an emotional response in your brain, are not about tone or virtuosity. They're about a combination of a whole bunch of things - melody, harmony, emotion, rhythm, musicianship, structure, and most certainly lyrics. While there are some situations where lyrics play a minor role in the song, 9 out of 10 times the lyrics are a major part of the song's impact. totally agree with you there
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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by El Chris »

tbh i thought OP was trollin..

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Re: My 2nd song Ive ever written

Post by willow13 »

Vince wrote:
willow13 wrote:
sambrowne wrote:This is why most of us can name way more Clapton or Led Zeppelin songs than Yngwie or Paul Gilbert songs I think you'll find that has more to do with the fact that clapton and zep have mainstream radio airplay thus exposure.......and I for one couldn't name you many clapton or zep songs
Uhm... bit of a sticky wicket there. So why do Led Zep and Clapton get more radio exposure than Yngwie or Paul Gilbert?

Could it be because "Wonderful Tonight" and "Layla" have more appeal than songs like "I Am a Viking" and "Soldier Without Faith"?

I wonder...
I think a lot of it has to do with era to start with.....and yes clapton and zep are very much more commercial....and yes malmsteens wankery is off putting for many


BUT it doesn't have a lot to do with their lyrics....some of malmsteens early lyrics are fantastic, but the songs are over looked from a commercial point of view because of his perceived style
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