Writer & singer

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Re: Writer & singer

Post by Stormbringer »

Some Bozo wrote: I don't know if they need meaning but they need interest. A load of old random bollocks can be interesting if it makes you wonder WTF the guy's on about. In the 70s, Yes made a career out of singing any old tosh that came into Jon Anderson's head and then claiming it was based on [insert name of philosophical or literary classic here]. In his case he claims he chooses words mainly for their sound value. What they actually mean is secondary.
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What Some Bozo said, but music definitely prime.
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by Jenesis »

shinenz wrote:
Jenesis wrote:
ash wrote:I don't give a flying rat's back verandah about lyrics for the most part. I don't know all the actual words to many songs, but I really know the melody to lots. Melody and rhythmic hooks are 90% of getting my attention with a song. There needs to be singing, but I mostly don't care what they're singing about.
I agree, but I would be slightly disappointed if I found out my fav song was singing about "Bush rocks" or some lame arse shit like that
I wouldn't care. But having grown up listening to a lot of Duran Duran, perhaps I've been trained not to care about lyrics by years of Simon Le Bon's random gibberish...

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Re: Writer & singer

Post by Some Bozo »

Stormbringer wrote:
Some Bozo wrote: I don't know if they need meaning but they need interest. A load of old random bollocks can be interesting if it makes you wonder WTF the guy's on about. In the 70s, Yes made a career out of singing any old tosh that came into Jon Anderson's head and then claiming it was based on [insert name of philosophical or literary classic here]. In his case he claims he chooses words mainly for their sound value. What they actually mean is secondary.
A seasoned witch could call you from the depths of your disgrace
And rearrange your liver to the solid mental grace
Achieve it all with music that came quickly from afar
Then taste the fruit of man recorded losing all against the hour

What Some Bozo said, but music definitely prime.
That's a good example of words-as-sound. Fuck only knows what it means, but it's full of pairs of hard consonants coming in on the right parts of the beat to get the syncopation going.
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by thehenderson »

Tonnes of good songs with nonsense lyrics, but I that doesn't make them meaningless. There are meaningless songs though, ones where you can tell the singer doesn't have anything to say

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Re: Writer & singer

Post by shinenz »

Or the singer is a product of a marketing brand. Bon Scott once said, we don't do "singles" how we meant to tour with a single, we do albums!
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by Rog »

Surely the real purpose of a song is to tell a story. If the lyrics don't say anything, why bother? Without meangingful lyrics, the song then just becomes a pretentious way to gain attention and less of a real song.

That's the official stance - my personal feeling is - who gives a smeg about the lyrics? Most lyrics can't be clearly discerned anyway. Then there are 2 of the greatest pop songs from my era which have lyrics that are so meaningless that there are a large number of websites devoted entirely to trying to work out what the hell they mean. The songs? A Whiter Shade of Pale and American Pie. Interviews with the lyricists have not shed much light on their meaning either, suggesting that there isn't one.

I've sung hundreds of song with absolutely no regard to the lyrics - they've just sort of held the song together and given the punters something to try to sing along with. To me and to the punters, as long as there's a good hook line to sing along to - it all works. The punters care not a whit about the meaning of the words and even less about that amazing guitar work we all strive to master. They want to show off to their mates by showing how great they are at singing words they don't know and how it gets so much better the more booze they drink and how they can do it better than that crap band on the stage .... money for nothing, all of them.

When I write, my primary aim is to scan nicely, rather than make sense. Free word associative song writing disorder, maybe? :lol:
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by shinenz »

The punters care not a whit about the meaning of the words and even less about that amazing guitar work we all strive to master. They want to show off to their mates by showing how great they are at singing words they don't know and how it gets so much better the more booze they drink and how they can do it better than that crap band on the stage .... money for nothing, all of them.

Great thoughts mate. I agree, rarely is a crowd at your local waterhole interested in the hard behind the scenes work, gone into the set list, or particular songs. Hence why I prefer originals, and don't do bars that only recruit cover bands. This is why I appreciate Jam nights, you know people are there for true musical appreciation.
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by B45-12 »

I suspect it's all generational in that young or niche writers will use words and phrases that will have meaning for their group, while the rest of the hearers will not neccessarily understand them. Rog, I and a few older others here would immediately understand 'Mary jane' as weed, while a Rap singer would understand 'ho' and 'layin some pipe' as sexually orientated. This 'exclusionary language' for want of a better term serves to reinforce a group and create less logical connection with the music. In the 30's blues singers did the same, plus talked about their emotions in a non-logical non 'story' manner - with this they created a sequence of verses that could be applied to many musical tunes and the hearer being also black and usually poor could empathise with ie

Sun's going to shine on my back door someday

oh that sun's going to shine on my back door some day

and the wind from the west is going to blow my blues away.

which might be paraodied as

Sun's going to shine out my arse some day

oh that sun's going to shine out my arse someday

and the wind from that same place going to blow my blues away.

Point is you need to know the first version to understand the second.

So the word 'connection' does not have to be great with the music or even logical but I reckon it must be able to move a certain group with perhaps the exception of heavy metal as I find it very difficult to hear the words form that genre. :lol:
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by foal30 »

very important, I want the tune to mean something.

I've bought and no doubt will again, music because of the perceived strengths of the lyric writer.
Mark E. Smith, Consolidated, Morrissey, Matt Johnston, Bob Dylan, Chuck D, all would have significant percentage of their fan base lyric centered.

This does not mean I have no truck for trite and indifferent lyrics, I like U2 as much as the next man. But as far as writing songs goes, I put far more work into the lyrics than any other individual part of the composition.

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Re: Writer & singer

Post by rocklander »

I agree.. words are paramount. where would we all be without the enlightenment of such lyrics as Paul Stanley saying "I'm going to shoot you with my ....... love gun"? I mean... genius.
but seriously.. yep they are important to me, but I'm a singer... so that kinda stands to reason.
interestingly, the songs I have found easiest (okay, least difficult.. none of them are easy for me, which is why I have a teleprompter) are the ones that don't make sense. 1979 by smashing pumpkins leads me nowhere but I still remember all the lyrics...from learning them years ago... weird.
Shakedown 1979, cool kids never have the time
On a live wire right up off the street
You and I should meet
Junebug skipping like a stone
With the headlights pointed at the dawn
We were sure we'd never see an end to it all
And I don't even care to shake these zipper blues
And we don't know, Just where our bones will rest To dust I guess
Forgotten and absorbed into the earth below
Double cross the vacant and the bored
They're not sure just what we have in store
Morphine city slipping dues down to see
That we don't even care as restless as we are
We feel the pull in the land of a thousand guilts
And poured cement, lamented and assured
To the lights and towns below
Faster than the speed of sound
Faster than we thought we'd go, beneath the sound of hope
Justine never knew the rules,
Hung down with the freaks and the ghouls
No apologies ever need be made, I know you better than you fake it
To see that we don't even care to shake these zipper blues
And we don't know just where our bones will rest To dust I guess
Forgotten and absorbed into the earth below
The street heats the urgency of now
As you see there's no one around
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by shinenz »

wow, tricky song to remember!
I think I can remember around about 5-6 covers, the rest just won't stay. hence why I ended up writing originals, can remember all my own songs fine, and wasn't into having a song book in front of me on stage 8)
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by thehenderson »

rocklander wrote:I agree.. words are paramount. where would we all be without the enlightenment of such lyrics as Paul Stanley saying "I'm going to shoot you with my ....... love gun"? I mean... genius.
but seriously.. yep they are important to me, but I'm a singer... so that kinda stands to reason.
interestingly, the songs I have found easiest (okay, least difficult.. none of them are easy for me, which is why I have a teleprompter) are the ones that don't make sense. 1979 by smashing pumpkins leads me nowhere but I still remember all the lyrics...from learning them years ago... weird.
Shakedown 1979, cool kids never have the time
On a live wire right up off the street
You and I should meet
Junebug skipping like a stone
With the headlights pointed at the dawn
We were sure we'd never see an end to it all
And I don't even care to shake these zipper blues
And we don't know, Just where our bones will rest To dust I guess
Forgotten and absorbed into the earth below
Double cross the vacant and the bored
They're not sure just what we have in store
Morphine city slipping dues down to see
That we don't even care as restless as we are
We feel the pull in the land of a thousand guilts
And poured cement, lamented and assured
To the lights and towns below
Faster than the speed of sound
Faster than we thought we'd go, beneath the sound of hope
Justine never knew the rules,
Hung down with the freaks and the ghouls
No apologies ever need be made, I know you better than you fake it
To see that we don't even care to shake these zipper blues
And we don't know just where our bones will rest To dust I guess
Forgotten and absorbed into the earth below
The street heats the urgency of now
As you see there's no one around
Same here, I used to cover that with my band when I was 13!

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Re: Writer & singer

Post by Some Bozo »

I truly can't stand that song. It's one of the worst of his alternating whisper/gay hairdresser hissyfit screech vocals. Incidentally does anyone know what's that repetitive sound you hear in the background of the verses ? Could never figure out out if it's a slide down the fretboard or some weird sample or vocal snippet
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Re: Writer & singer

Post by danrawkz »

1979 is an awesome song!

The sound in the verses is just a high pitched sample, I think it's great myself

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Re: Writer & singer

Post by thehenderson »

Just sounds like the guy singing "yeah" or something, played back a few times

I like that song, it's cool, a bit repetitive but still good

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